1 2 CITY COUNCIL 3 CITY OF NEW YORK 4 -------------------------------x 5 THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE MINUTES 6 of the 7 COMMITTEE ON RULES, PRIVILEGES 8 And ELECTIONS 9 -------------------------------x February 6, 2002 10 Start: 10:40 a.m. Recess: 12:10 p.m. 11 City Hall 12 Council Chambers New York, New York 13 14 B E F O R E: 15 LEROY COMRIE Chairperson, 16 17 COUNCIL MEMBERS: Bill Perkins Madeline Provenzano 18 Christine Quinn Joel Rivera 19 Tony Avella Maria Baez 20 Yvette Clarke Lewis Fidler 21 Melinda Katz David Weprin 22 James Oddo Speaker Miller 23 24 LEGAL-EASE COURT REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 217 Broadway - Suite 511 25 New York, New York 10007 (800) 756-3410 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 2 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S 3 Rose Gill Hearn 4 Mayor's Nominee for Commissioner Department of Investigation 5 Benito Romano 6 Acting Chair New York City Conflicts of Interest Board 7 Jane Parver 8 Member New York City Conflicts of Interest Board 9 Bruce A. Green 10 Member New York City Conflicts of Interest Board 11 John Merolo 12 Staten Island Representative City Planning Commission 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 3 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Good morning, 3 ladies and gentlemen. I would like to welcome you 4 to the first meeting of the Rules, Privileges and 5 Elections Committee, and before we commence, I would 6 like to ask everyone to turn their cell phones off. 7 And I would remind the members that the Rules, 8 Privileges and Elections Committee, this is the 9 first Committee where we will taking, first meeting, 10 but we will be taking testimony from candidates for 11 various Commissions, Boards and Departments. 12 As you know, the reports are 13 confidential, and it is very important that if 14 you're interested in taking part that you do attend 15 the pre- briefings and contact the staff for this 16 Committee. And I want to start off by commending the 17 staff, Harvey Fertig, Stewart Goldstein, Charles 18 Davis and Catherine McKinney-McAlevey for their work 19 in putting together the candidates for today. As 20 you know, they have to do background investigations 21 and other investigations of the candidates to have 22 them prepared for the meeting, to have the 23 information prepared for you for the meeting. And 24 you're welcome to contact them at any time to go 25 over any of these documents. As you can see, the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 4 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 documents that you before you today is quite a large 3 narrative, and you need to read them before hand, if 4 you have any pertinent questions or comments 5 regarding any of the candidates. 6 As you know, I have instituted some 7 new procedures and we will be making further changes 8 in the manner in which this Committee operates. As 9 Chairperson, I have taken the opportunity to 10 personally send out notices of this hearing to over 11 20 civic organizations that have commented in the 12 past on most matters before this body. Their 13 suggestions have always been a valuable resource in 14 the Council's deliberations, and I believe that it 15 is only proper that this outreach occur before the 16 public hearing. I have informed them that we will 17 work, welcome their testimony and/or their written 18 comments. 19 At today's hearing I will be 20 instituting a practice that will be followed at all 21 appointment hearings. My Counsel will be swearing 22 in all witnesses, this will apply to all candidates, 23 whether they are being put forward by the Mayor, 24 Borough Presidents, Public Advocate or by the City 25 Council. This policy will be consistent so that no Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 5 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 candidate can claim that they're being treated in a 3 discriminatory manner by being singled out and by 4 being the only person required to take an oath. 5 Further in the future, in advance of the hearings, 6 we will be submitting questions to the candidates so 7 that the Committee can get a sense of their ideas, 8 plans and concerns about the body that they are 9 seeking to be appointed to. If any members of the 10 Committee have any further ideas, please, feel free 11 to submit them or discuss them with me at any time. 12 Today we have five candidates for 13 appointment. The first candidate is for the 14 Commissioner of the Department of Investigation. We 15 then have three candidates for re- appointment to 16 the Conflict of Interest Board, and last, we have 17 the candidate of the Borough President of Staten 18 Island for the City Planning Commission. 19 Before we begin, I also want to note, 20 for the record, that we do have, this is a large 21 city, a city of many talents in many different 22 quarters of the City. While I understand that the 23 Mayor had to ramp up quickly to make some of these 24 appointments, and we have other appointments that 25 need to be quickly made, I would hope that the Mayor Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 6 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 reaches out to all aspects of the City in his future 3 appointments. While I'm not trying to cast any 4 dispersions on any of the persons that are going up 5 for appointments today, it's important that in a 6 city of this magnitude and changing culture, 7 changing ideas and changing focus, that the various 8 Boards and Commissions reflect the diversity and the 9 wealth of talent that is throughout this entire 10 City. 11 At this time we would like to begin 12 with Ms. Rose Gill Hearn. Good morning. 13 MR. FERTIG: Prior to your testimony, 14 would you please raise your right hand? Do you 15 solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are 16 about to give is the truth, the whole truth and 17 nothing but the truth? 18 MS. GILL HEARN: I do. 19 MR. FERTIG: Please state your name 20 and affiliation for the record. 21 MS. GILL HEARN: Rose Gill Hearn. 22 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Good morning, 23 again, Ms. Gill Hearn. You are, do you want to make 24 an opening statement? 25 MS. GILL HEARN: I have it here. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 7 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Yes, please do. 3 MS. GILL HEARN: Thank you. I'm 4 honored to appear here today before the members of 5 the City Council, as Mayor Bloomberg's nominee for 6 the position of Commissioner for the Department of 7 Investigation. I am flattered and grateful to be 8 his selection for that important post. As you know, 9 the Commissioner of the Department of Investigations 10 may be called upon by the Mayor or the City Council 11 to direct investigations. Thus, it is my pleasure 12 to be here to speak to you about myself and DOI, and 13 to answer questions you may have. Should you 14 confirm my appointment, I would look forward to 15 working with you in the future. 16 Let me begin by telling you a little 17 bit about myself, things not necessarily on my 18 resume that might be of use to you in considering my 19 nomination. I was born in Manhattan and lived in 20 Stuyvesant Town for a number of years. My family 21 later moved to Rockville Center, Long Island. I 22 returned to Manhattan for college and law school, 23 and have lived in New York City ever since. I grew 24 up in a household where my father was a prosecutor, 25 first in the Marine Corp, and then in the Office of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 8 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 Frank Hogan, the legendary District Attorney for New 3 York County. 4 After graduating from Fordham Law 5 School, I went to work for a large prominent law 6 firm doing litigation. In addition to civil 7 litigation, I worked extensively on criminal defense 8 matters. When I became a prosecutor three years 9 later, I was very glad to have had that criminal 10 defense experience, as it made me realize that there 11 are two sides to every story. I left private 12 practice, including the compensation of private 13 practice, to fulfill my goal of doing public 14 service. I was appointed as Assistant US Attorney 15 in the US Attorney's Office for the Southern 16 District of New York, that is the Federal 17 Prosecutor's Office, a block away from here. 18 The US Attorney's Office is 19 universally accepted as one of the best law offices 20 and the best law enforcement offices in the country. 21 I have served in that office with unabashed pride 22 for the past ten and a half years, under three US 23 Attorneys, Otto Overmeyer, Roger Hayes, now Judge 24 Hayes in the Bronx, and Mary Jo White. During my 25 tenure there, I worked in the General Crimes, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 9 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 Narcotics, Major Crimes and Securities Units. I 3 have worked on fraud investigation where individuals 4 or corporations were the victims, or where the 5 government was the victim of the fraud, which is 6 analogous to the work done at DOI. I also 7 investigated and prosecuted cases involving major 8 narcotics traffickers, gun traffickers and violent 9 gangs that were responsible for dozens of murders in 10 Manhattan, the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens, and the 11 sale of thousands of kilograms of narcotics in our 12 streets. I also prosecuted money laundering, tax 13 and immigration offenses. 14 With the advent of the Internet came 15 a new area of criminal activity that I became 16 involved with, including fraud, identity theft, and 17 crimes against children, such as distribution of 18 child pornography and sexual predators who lure 19 children using the Internet. I also participated in 20 the investigation of various federal agency 21 employees, including employees of the Postal 22 Service, Passport Office, Social Security Office and 23 Federal Prison for thefts and other corrupt 24 activities. Again, that is similar to work done at 25 DOI. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 10 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 I was promoted to the position of 3 Deputy Chief of the Criminal Division in 1998, a 4 position I have held since then. I was selected for 5 that position by Mary Jo White, the renowned US 6 Attorney who served that office in this City with 7 integrity and exceptional distinction for the past 8 eight years. During her tenure, our office 9 prosecuted some of the largest and the most 10 significant cases of our time, including security 11 cases, corruption cases and terrorists cases. 12 Indeed, Osama Bin Laden has been under indictment 13 for several years in the Southern District for 14 terrorist activities against Americans and our 15 Embassies abroad. We also prosecuted the 16 individuals responsible for the 1993 terrorist 17 attack on the World Trade Center, a case in which I 18 was happy to have played a role during my early days 19 at the US Attorney's Office by writing the 20 government's pre- trial motion papers. 21 In my capacity as Deputy Chief of the 22 Criminal Division beginning in 1998, I became a 23 member of the US Attorney's Executive Committee, 24 responsible for policy and the management of the 300 25 plus members of the legal investigative and Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 11 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 administrative staff of that office. 3 Parenthetically, the Department of Investigation has 4 similar components and is approximately the same 5 size office. 6 As Deputy Chief of the Criminal 7 Division, I was one of a handful of supervisors 8 responsible for the supervision of the approximately 9 170 Assistant US Attorneys in the Criminal Division. 10 Among other things, I approved indictments, 11 cooperation agreements, immunity requests and other 12 important instruments used in the investigation and 13 prosecution of cases. I was also responsible for 14 deciding intake proposals from the state and federal 15 agencies who wanted to open new investigations 16 including DOI. 17 I staffed and supervised special 18 investigations that were sensitive or were important 19 law enforcement initiatives. I also ensured that 20 numerous, indeed, hundreds of cases of the office 21 were proceeding expeditiously and properly. 22 Additionally, I interacted with dozens of law 23 enforcement agencies, state and federal, on 24 investigations and initiatives. I have worked on 25 many cases and legal issues with the New York City Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 12 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 Police Department, the FBI, ATF and many more. 3 As a result of my work I have many 4 close contacts throughout the current state and 5 federal law enforcement community with whom DOI 6 interacts. I also initiated ways in which 7 technology could help the work of our office by 8 setting up a computer database to track information 9 relating to certain categories of cases and 10 computerizing information provided by cooperating 11 witnesses. 12 As Deputy Chief of the Criminal 13 Division, I also handled numerous administrative 14 matters, including, among many other things, the 15 hiring of attorneys, investigators, and members of 16 the staff. For the past year, concurrent with my 17 other duties, I also became Chief of the Crime 18 Control Strategies Unit of the US Attorneys Office, 19 which seeks to initiate non- traditional projects to 20 better some of the most impoverished and crime 21 riddled communities in our City. With funding from 22 the Department of Justice, and by partnering with 23 the District Attorney's Office and the NYPD, as well 24 as various not- for- profit organizations, such as 25 Kip's Bay Boys and Girls Club and the Y, our Weed Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 13 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 and Seed program, for young people, provides after 3 school programs, a summer camp, tutoring, mentoring 4 and much more. I was particularly happy to have 5 supervised and participated in that facet of the US 6 Attorney's Office. 7 Finally, in addition to my work at 8 the US Attorneys Office, for the past four years I 9 have been an adjunct Professor of Law at Fordham Law 10 School, where I teach trial advocacy at night. 11 The last thing I will say about 12 myself, is that in all matters my practice was to be 13 thorough, tenacious, as well as fair, reasonable and 14 open- minded. I expected the same of agents and 15 others who worked with me, and I worked hard. 16 If you honor me with your trust by 17 confirming me for the position of Commissioner of 18 DOI, I will continue to do that. Should I be 19 confirmed, my goal as Commissioner would be to 20 continue the efforts of the fine people at DOI who 21 work diligently to monitor efficiency and integrity 22 in government and among the vendors doing business 23 with the City. It is a challenging task, one that I 24 would take on with vigor and a fresh perspective. 25 Specifically, I intend to set up regular Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 14 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 Comstat-style meetings with the Inspector's General. 3 There are recurring problems with 4 certain agencies that need particular attention and 5 solutions that are going to last. I also think 6 there are ways that computer technology can improve 7 the work of DOI. Moreover, I am particularly 8 concerned about fraud and criminal activities 9 stemming from the World Trade Center cleanup and 10 reconstruction project. Intense scrutiny of that 11 would be a priority of mine. Anyone who would take 12 advantage of that atrocity should be rooted out, 13 prosecuted or otherwise dealt with to the fullest 14 extent. 15 That said, not of all of the cases 16 and matters DOI handles are big and as high profile 17 as that, but I believe the smaller matters are 18 important because solving small problems can 19 collectively make a big difference for the City. 20 And I want the members of DOI to feel that way and 21 to take pride in all of the work that they do. I 22 intend to let it be known that DOI is a place to 23 come if someone has a complaint or knows of some 24 fraud, waste or abuse. I also intend to let it be 25 known to wrong doers and others who are complacent Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 15 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 about their responsibilities to the City, that DOI 3 is an agency such people need to be concerned about. 4 My desire to become DOI Commissioner 5 is also grounded in my desire to continue in public 6 service. The atrocities that I saw one block from 7 here on the morning of September 11th, have 8 reinforced my commitment to serve the public and the 9 City in particular. I would find it extremely 10 fulfilling, as I am sure each of you do, to serve 11 the City of New York at this time in its history. 12 I will be happy to answer any 13 questions you have. 14 Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Thank you for 16 your statement, Ms. Gill Hearn. Based on, just from 17 your statement, I would just ask you one quick 18 question. I understand you have a wealth of 19 experience working with the Criminal Division for 20 the United States Attorney, and you mentioned in 21 your statement about agencies that you felt needed 22 some oversight and adjustment, I think fixing was 23 the word that you utilized. Could you give us a 24 sense of what those agencies were, at this time? 25 MS. GILL HEARN: With due respect, I Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 16 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 would rather not, you know, highlight or pinpoint 3 any, or name any particular agencies, right now, 4 that I have in mind. 5 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Okay. During 6 your work at the United States Attorney's Office, 7 did you have any investigations that focused on New 8 York City's issues or issues with City agencies in 9 particular? 10 MS. GILL HEARN: Well I did a 11 tremendous amount of work with the New York City 12 Police Department. I conducted several arson 13 investigations with the Fire Department. We also 14 handled cases with DOI, and through DOI various 15 agencies of the City, DOB, Finance, et cetera, so 16 those were some of the cases that I worked on that 17 dealt with the City. 18 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: If you had 19 spoken with your predecessors, those who have held 20 the position that you're now looking to obtain, have 21 you talked to them about managing the agency, their 22 perspective on what they would have done, vis- a- 23 vis, what can be done now? You talked about 24 incorporating technology and utilizing the 25 opportunities for technology to streamline and Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 17 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 maintain the office, could you give us a more 3 detailed description of how you would go about that? 4 MS. GILL HEARN: I think that there 5 is a tremendous flow of information that goes to DOI 6 from City employees, and as a result of 7 investigations that, if computerized, can create a 8 useful database, a mapping database, almost a 9 Comstat-style database. So that if the same people 10 or the same entities or the same contract or the 11 same problem keeps popping up, we can go back to a 12 computer database and see who else has information 13 about that particular person or problem and collect 14 that data to go forward and address it. That is 15 something that we set up at the US Attorney's Office 16 and has been very helpful. And with the volume of 17 information that DOI receives, I think that it 18 lends itself the same kind of technology. And there 19 are some terrific folks over at DOI, in the Side 20 Safe Area who are computer techies and I have spoken 21 to and would be amenable to setting something like 22 that up. 23 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: On the other 24 hand now, the abundance of information tends to 25 overwhelm agencies, as you know, is part of the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 18 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 September 11th situation, there was information that 3 was available regarding those perpetrators that just 4 did not get to the necessary agencies. How would 5 you be, what process would you look at to try to 6 encapsulate this information so that you would not 7 be buried in paper or buried in overload of 8 information, so- to speak? 9 MS. GILL HEARN: Well I think that it 10 would be a necessity to have regular meetings with 11 the Inspector's General and with the Assistant 12 Commissioners, obviously, who oversee the various 13 Inspector's General. And I'm talking about a sort 14 of a Comstat-style system where one group, I meet 15 with at least one group every week, and we go 16 through all the work and the problems and the cases 17 and the matters that each of those groups is dealing 18 with. And we have follow- up in the next meeting 19 with respect to the to do list created at every 20 meeting. 21 So I think that getting together 22 regularly and having a Comstat-style system would be 23 very helpful. 24 There are also very excellent 25 Deputies in place, who each are responsible for, you Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 19 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 know, a given area within the office, who keep 3 things running smoothly at this point. 4 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: The Mayor has 5 asked each agency to reduce its budget, are any 6 positions that you believe can be cut without 7 jeopardizing the agency's mission? 8 MS. GILL HEARN: The folks over at 9 DOI have put in a budget reduction proposal to 10 Deputy Mayor Marc Shaw, which is about half of what 11 he asked for. They have continued to work on ways 12 to come up with additional monies that can be cut. 13 DOI is also a money- making agency, in a sense, it 14 collects restitution and monies from investigations 15 that it does. And so, I think that we're going to 16 be able to come with a significant reduction for the 17 Mayor. Certainly, not the 20 percent that he has 18 asked for, but we're going to continue to work on 19 some ways that maybe we can come up with some cuts 20 without the necessity of having to lay people off. 21 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: I had a 22 question, while I was reviewing your background, or 23 actually the responsibilities of the DOI, it's a 24 learning process for me, as well. I realized that 25 you also have Commissioner Stansik under your Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 20 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 purview as a person that can be, not still quite, I 3 have not understood what the exact piece is. I know 4 he comes under your purview and that he is an 5 independent investigator. But in this sweeping 6 change in government with so many new people that 7 are in government and are moving into new 8 governmental positions, how do you view your 9 relationship with a Commissioner of School 10 Investigations or the other special Investigation 11 Commissioners that you also have purview under? 12 MS. GILL HEARN: Mr. Stansik is a 13 special Commissioner within the Department of 14 Investigation, as you know. And I plan on having 15 regular contact with him, reaching out to him to 16 discuss with him the things that he is doing in his 17 area. He has a special status, he is not an 18 ordinary IG, he is a special Commissioner, he has 19 the penal power. But I look forward to having 20 regular meetings with him and keeping abreast of the 21 work that he is doing as a member of DOI. 22 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Yes. 23 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: Thank you, 24 Mr. Chairman. Ms. Gill Hearn in announcing your 25 appointment, your nomination, Mayor Bloomberg said Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 21 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 that he had extensive conversations with you to make 3 sure that you never feel any political influence or 4 pressure from the Mayor's Office in conducting any 5 investigations. What steps do you anticipate 6 putting, or what processes do you anticipate putting 7 in at DOI to make sure that your entire agency 8 independent and insulated from any political 9 pressure, from any source including the Mayor's 10 Office? 11 MS. GILL HEARN: Well I assume that 12 they will take their tone from me, I tend to make it 13 clear that we are independent of the Mayor's Office. 14 And I think that the Mayor's public statements to 15 that effect have made that known, and I will also 16 make that known in the Office. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: I mean are 18 there any processes or methods of procedure that you 19 intend to institute that your predecessor did not 20 have to make sure that no one interferes or 21 intimidates or is involved in any investigations or 22 becomes aware of investigations that they should not 23 become aware of, that have not existed before? 24 MS. GILL HEARN: I cannot think of 25 any, but, I mean, I will certainly look into Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 22 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 something along those lines, if something like that 3 were to come up. Suffice it to say, if anybody were 4 to feel that there was a sensitive matter that has 5 come to their attention, it will be made clear that 6 they should report either to me or one of the other 7 members of the Executive Committee who will be 8 reporting to me. And that they should have no fears 9 or qualms or concerns whatsoever about reporting 10 anything sensitive like that. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: The other 12 question I had would be this, and unfortunately, in 13 Brooklyn we have had some bad experiences recently, 14 allegedly with our judiciary. It's not yet clear, 15 and probably will not be clear until trial, whether 16 or not the indictments and investigations were 17 reactive to complaints or proactive in the sense 18 that either OCA or the Brooklyn District Attorney 19 was conducting an investigation. How proactive will 20 your DOI be in terms of looking amongst City 21 agencies for corruption, and as opposed to just 22 reacting to complaints that DOI receives? 23 MS. GILL HEARN: Well I think that is 24 a good question, and certainly part of my philosophy 25 at the US Attorney's Office, has been that we should Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 23 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 be proactive. We shouldn't just wait for the phone 3 to ring and for an arrest to be made to address a 4 problem. And so to the extent that we are aware 5 that there are tendencies or opportunities for 6 problems in various agencies, I absolutely intend to 7 look into proactive measures, undercover measures, 8 audit measures to make sure that things do not 9 become fires that need not be, or if there are 10 problems, we will be able to find them before some 11 big loss occurs and we're just reacting, as you 12 said. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: Thank you. 14 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Council Member 15 Avella. 16 COUNCIL MEMBER AVELLA: Assuming 17 that you're confirmed today, what are your plans to 18 ensure a smooth transition with regard to ongoing 19 investigations? 20 MS. GILL HEARN: My plans are and 21 have been to meet with Ed Kuriansky, the First 22 Deputy Commissioner, the Deputy Chief of 23 Investigations - - Deputy Commissioner of 24 Investigations, and all of the other Assistant 25 Commissioners who have oversight and supervisory Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 24 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 responsibilities for the caseload at the office. 3 And I'm also going to meet directly with the 4 Inspectors General, I'm going to meet with staff 5 attorneys, and I'm going to meet with the 6 investigators who are in the field doing the cases 7 themselves. And I'm going to undertake a complete 8 case review, case by case, agency by agency, so that 9 it is done in an orderly fashion and does not become 10 overwhelming, as Councilman Comrie alluded to. And 11 get a handle on where we are, how many cases we 12 have, which ones are stagnating, which ones could be 13 pushed along, which ones are ready for prosecution 14 or referral for administrative action, and just, you 15 know, move along what can be moved along. And if 16 something is under staffed, staff it up properly, 17 and just have regular meetings thereafter to make 18 sure that the investigative steps and other 19 paperwork, et cetera, that needs to be done, gets 20 done on a timely basis. 21 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Council Member 22 Oddo. 23 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Thank you. I 24 apologize for the tight squeeze here. Welcome and 25 good morning. I'm just reading the very first page Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 25 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 that speaks, excerpt from the Charter that it 3 details the responsibilities of this agency. And it 4 says that DOI has jurisdiction over any agency, 5 officer, employer of the City, and also any person 6 or entity doing business with the City, or any 7 person or entity who is paid or receives money from 8 that, from the City. I would take from that that 9 would include not- for profit organizations, not- 10 for- profit entities that contract with the City. 11 This is more of a request than an 12 actual question, I would just ask our City Council's 13 Oversight and Investigation Unit put together a 14 fabulous report back in 1997 that detailed some 15 abuses in the not- for- profit sector. I would just 16 like to make that report available to you and your 17 new staff. And ask that, perhaps, when you get 18 settled in, if our office and Catherine McAlevey 19 from Oversight and the Investigation Unit, can meet 20 with you? Because in an era of billion dollar 21 budget gaps, I think we need to look at every single 22 tax dollar, including those that are contracted to 23 not- for- profits, and I say that with the headlines 24 of today's newspapers fully in mind. And I think 25 for far too long, that this Council has done a very Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 26 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 good job, and City government has done a good job of 3 analyzing tax dollars going to City agencies, but 4 City government has failed to look and analyze to 5 see if tax dollars going to not- for- profits, and 6 those tax dollars number in the billions, are being 7 used efficiently and effectively on the front line 8 services. 9 So I would just ask that when you get 10 settled in, if perhaps we could set up a meeting, go 11 over that report and give you more of our concerns 12 in greater detail. 13 MS. GILL HEARN: Thank you. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Thank you, Mr. 15 Chairman. 16 MS. GILL HEARN: Thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Council Member 18 Weprin. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER WEPRIN: Yes, Ms. Gill 20 Hearn, since December 1986, the Inspector General's 21 system that you referred to before, has been under 22 the control of the Commissioner of Investigation by 23 Executive Order. Do you intend to estimate or 24 continue this arrangement, or do you think it should 25 be done by legislation, officially or unofficially? Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 27 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 MS. GILL HEARN: I would have to take 3 a look at that, I do not have any current view that 4 the system, as it exists today, is in any way 5 problematic or it doesn't work. My understanding is 6 that it does work well, and so I do not have in mind 7 that kind of request, but I certainly would take a 8 look at that. 9 COUNCIL MEMBER WEPRIN: Okay. 10 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Council Member 11 Katz, and then Council Member Clarke. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Ms. Gill Hearn, 13 someone who had the honor of interning with the US 14 Attorney's Office for about six months, I do find 15 your resume quite impressive. The only thing that I 16 would question, what Chairman Comrie was talking 17 about as far as experience with the City agencies. 18 I understand that talking about open cases is a 19 problem, but you have been at the US Attorney's 20 Office for a long time, and perhaps you could just 21 describe some of the interactions that you had with 22 the City agencies? And if there really has not been 23 that much, what kind of staff do you intend on 24 surrounding yourself with that may be more familiar 25 with the agencies? Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 28 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 MS. GILL HEARN: My experience with 3 City agencies has been through cases and legal 4 issues and initiatives, mainly with the New York 5 City Police Department, with the Fire Department, 6 and cases that we do with DOI. Doing cases with DOI 7 at the US Attorney's Office, as you may know, we do 8 not usually deal directly with the agency, we're 9 dealing with DOI, which is dealing with the agency. 10 So that is largely what my experience with City 11 agencies has been. 12 The Inspector's General at DOI are on 13 the front line dealing with and actually being at 14 each of the City's agencies and overseeing the 15 City's agencies, and they, of course, report into 16 among others, the Commissioner. And I intend to get 17 in the trenches with them and understand the way 18 that each of these agencies works, and what is 19 working and what is not working. And get involved 20 in understanding and supervising and moving along 21 the criminal and administrative problems that the 22 Inspector General's are dealing with to those 23 offices. 24 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Is it too early 25 or do you have any present plans for employment, for Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 29 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 people, you know to surround yourself with senior 3 staff that may know the workings of the many, many 4 agencies that we work with in the City of New York? 5 MS. GILL HEARN: Yes, of the few 6 vacancies that are there now, I certainly do intend 7 to bring on people who are familiar with City 8 government, the Corporation Counsel Office and the 9 other City agencies with whom, I obviously, will 10 need to have a strong understanding and a good 11 relationship with. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: No definite 13 plans yet? 14 MS. GILL HEARN: No definite plans. 15 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: No definite, 16 thank you very much for your time. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER CLARKE: Good morning, 18 Ms. Hearn. 19 MS. GILL HEARN: Good morning. 20 COUNCIL MEMBER CLARKE: I thought, 21 perhaps my colleague, Council Member Oddo, might be 22 heading in this direction, but he veered to another 23 area. Let me just ask, during your background 24 investigations you disclosed that your father is 25 Chairman of Group Health Insurance, GHI, a not- for- Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 30 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 profit corporation providing health coverage to City 3 employees, and a pro bono Chair of the Battery Park 4 City Authority. Both of these entities have 5 business dealings with the City. If matters came 6 before your agency involving these groups, what 7 steps, if any, would you take to mitigate any 8 potential conflicts of interests? 9 MS. GILL HEARN: I would have nothing 10 to do with them, whatsoever. I would be recused and 11 others would handle them. 12 As a postscript, Battery Park City 13 does not do any business with the City. I put that 14 down in an abundance of caution. Battery Park City 15 Authority is a State entity and it has no City 16 employees, it does no business with the City, it 17 gets no money from the City. At the end of each 18 fiscal year, I believe, if there is a surplus 19 pursuant to some agreement with the City, the City 20 gets money from Battery Park City, but Battery Park 21 City does not get any money or anything from the 22 City. 23 But suffice it to say, if anything 24 involving Battery Park City or GHI comes on our 25 radar screen, I would have nothing to do with it, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 31 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 and I would recuse myself. Indeed, from time to 3 time there were cases at the US Attorney's Office in 4 the major crimes unit, health care fraud cases that 5 involved GHI in one capacity or another, usually it 6 is a victim of some fraud, and I recused myself from 7 those matters. 8 COUNCIL MEMBER CLARKE: Just to, you 9 know, sort of balance out the dialogue, there are 10 interactions with Battery Park City and the City of 11 New York particularly in the area of land use. And 12 so there may be occasions where those types of 13 discussions may come before your agency, and so you 14 may want to note that. 15 MS. GILL HEARN: I will. I have also 16 discussed it with my father, and I do not know that 17 he had any dealings on land use or anything else 18 with the City to date, and he has been in that 19 office for several years. But if anything like that 20 were to occur, I would have nothing to do with it or 21 put up. 22 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Council Member 23 Provenzano, and then Council Member Quinn. 24 COUNCIL MEMBER PROVENZANO: Thank 25 you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome. I would just like to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 32 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 follow- up on my colleague's question, suggestion 3 regarding the not- for- profits, because I know the 4 work that was put into that and we actually have 5 some legislation that will be introduced in the 6 Council regarding that. And I just don't feel that 7 you responded to it in a yes or no manner. So if 8 you could clarify your response to Councilman Oddo's 9 suggestion? 10 MS. GILL HEARN: Sure, my suggestion 11 is that I think it is, my answer is that I think 12 that I think it is a good suggestion. I do not know 13 the report that he is referring to from, I think, 14 1997, but I'm happy to get a copy of it from him or 15 from Mr. Goldstein and read it. And I'm happy to 16 sit down with Councilman Oddo, yourself and anybody 17 else who has an interest in that area, and my 18 interest is peaked and I'm happy to look into it. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER QUINN: Thank you. Do 20 you, this is kind of a follow- up to Council Member 21 Clarke's question about GHI and Battery Park City, 22 but more just on GHI. She asked the question and 23 you said you would, obviously, recuse yourself from 24 anything having to do with GHI. The question that 25 popped into my head was whether or not you feel you Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 33 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 would need to recuse yourself from any cases that 3 had anything to do with any of the City's insurance 4 carriers, less a negative ruling or something 5 against another insurance carrier might be deemed as 6 something that could be beneficial for GHI? Or is 7 it your sense that there is not a need for that 8 level of recusement, if that is a word? 9 MS. GILL HEARN: Well, that is an 10 interesting angle on it, Councilwoman Quinn, and I 11 think that if an issue were to even indirectly 12 appear or actually effect beneficially GHI then I 13 would also recuse myself from something like that. 14 But, you know, there would have to be some actual or 15 real appearance of a problem for me to do that, but 16 I would certainly think that through, the way that 17 you have just done that. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER QUINN: So it's fair 19 to say you would be looking in an extra cautious way 20 at issues that relate to the other insurance 21 carriers to make a determination? 22 MS. GILL HEARN: Absolutely. 23 COUNCIL MEMBER QUINN: Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Ms. Gill Hearn, 25 just another question, or actually it's more of a Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 34 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 suggestion. To achieve more oversight of the 3 Education Budget, Mayor Giuliani had appointed or 4 created a position, a special Counsel to the Mayor, 5 to deal with fiscal oversight of the Board of 6 Education pursuant to Executive Order Number 7, 7 which invoked DOI's powers of investigation as 8 applied to the Board of Education. I would just 9 suggest to you, Herman Badillo, just for your 10 information, was appointed to this position. As you 11 know, over the past couple of years, the Board of 12 Education has been fiscally incompetent to say the 13 least, and with cost over runs from construction, 14 districts consistently overrunning their amount of 15 dollars that they're allowed to spend, just a total 16 mismanagement of their fiscal responsibility. And I 17 would suggest to you that as part of your powers 18 that you do have, that you strengthen that 19 opportunity to make sure that the Board of Education 20 comes under some very stringent fiscal oversight. 21 We have lost construction dollars, we 22 have lost opportunities for technology, we have lost 23 a lot of opportunities to make sure that dollars go 24 straight to children. And as I was reading this and 25 spoke to the Committee about it, I realized that Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 35 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 your Office does have the ability to strengthen that 3 opportunity to protect the dollars for the Board of 4 Education, and also with other City agencies. In 5 this time of fiscal crisis, whatever can be done to 6 monitor and to protect the scarce resources and 7 dollars that we do have from fiscal incompetence and 8 persons that tend to want to not be concerned about 9 the vendors, especially in the Board of Education 10 matter, that they knew were either incompetent or 11 corrupt, or just irresponsible that they just went 12 ahead and allowed those vendors to be giving 13 contracts and opportunities to fall apart. 14 So I would strongly urge you to, I 15 don't want to say a bad word, but to tighten up, I 16 don't want to say tighten up because you're new, but 17 to create a stronger opportunity in that office, and 18 adjust the fiscal, and any opportunity that you have 19 as fiscal oversight for any agency. This City 20 cannot afford any less. 21 MS. GILL HEARN: I will certainly 22 focus on that. 23 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Also, are there 24 any other questions from the members? Council 25 Member Perkins. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 36 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: No, thank 3 you. 4 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Well do you have 5 a closing statement? 6 MS. GILL HEARN: I do not. 7 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Okay. I 8 appreciate your coming before the Committee today, 9 and I was impressed with your background, and I 10 would like to have an opportunity to talk to you 11 more about vision, but since we have five candidates 12 today, I do not want to keep you here all morning. 13 But we appreciate your coming before us. 14 MS. GILL HEARN: Thank you very much. 15 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: We will be 16 voting at the end of the meeting. Thank you. 17 The next person is Mr. Benito Romano. 18 Good morning. 19 MR. FERTIG: Mr. Romano, would you, 20 please, raise your right hand? Do you solemnly 21 swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to 22 give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 23 the truth? 24 MR. ROMANO: I do. 25 MR. FERTIG: Please state your name Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 37 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 and affiliation for the record? 3 MR. ROMANO: Benito Romano, Acting 4 Chair of the Conflicts of Interest Board, and an 5 attorney practicing in New York City at the firm of 6 Wilkie Farr and Gallagher. 7 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: All right, do 8 you have an opening statement, Mr. Romano? 9 MR. ROMANO: I have no formal opening 10 statement, other than to observe that in the 11 audience this morning are several members of the 12 Executive Staff of the Conflicts of Interest Board, 13 Mark Davies, Wayne Harley, and our Chief of 14 Enforcement, Joan Salzman. 15 As the Committee knows, I have been 16 serving on the Conflicts of Interest Board since 17 1994, and I have been serving as its Acting Chair 18 for the last three years. 19 I, prior to that, had some experience 20 in government service at the US Attorney's Office in 21 Southern District. Regrettably, I never got to serve 22 with your last witness, we did not overlap. But 23 having been in and out of government, I can tell you 24 that my service on the Conflict of Interest Board 25 has been thoroughly enjoyable. It's a challenging Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 38 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 and interesting quasi traditional function, and it 3 is something that I would be privileged to continue, 4 if the Committee were to approve my appointment. 5 I am available to answer any 6 questions the Committee has. 7 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Thank you. 8 Could you please describe the composition of the 9 current Board, including the length of service of 10 its members and the vacancies, tell us when these 11 positions became vacant? 12 MR. ROMANO: I can. We currently 13 have three members serving on the Board. And the 14 Board under the Charter is to consist of five 15 members. The three members including myself are: 16 Jane Parver, who you will hear from later, who was 17 appointed in September 1994, and Bruce Green, a 18 professor at Fordham Law School, who was appointed 19 in November 1995. I was appointed also, in 20 September 1994. We were initially appointed, I 21 believe, to fill out the terms of other members and 22 have since been reappointed. And I think our current 23 status is that we are automatically reappointed for 24 a year after our term expires. 25 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Ideally, do you Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 39 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 believe that this, the composition now of the Board 3 is in the best interest of a person seeking a 4 ruling? And the Board, as you know, is supposed to 5 have five members, you have some issues before you 6 now that are quite critical to the interest of the 7 City. Do you feel that, what do you feel should be 8 done primarily to fill out this Board with persons 9 that could reflect the issues and have some 10 background and knowledge in the important issues 11 that you have to face immediately? 12 MR. ROMANO: The only answer one can 13 give to your question is, the Board of course would 14 benefit by having five members. We would benefit 15 not only because of the diversity of our own life 16 experiences, but there are occasions when the Board 17 is called upon to have hearings, many of them are 18 not public. They're enormously time consuming, and 19 it is not, we are all volunteers, we have other 20 lives away from City government. We enjoy it very 21 much and we're very much committed to doing this 22 public service, but there are times when our 23 resources are really strained. 24 Having said that, we have managed to 25 maintain a fairly significant docket of, not only Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 40 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 cases, but advisory opinions even with only three 3 members. There are times when one of our members 4 have to recuse himself or herself, that puts 5 additional strain on the remaining members. For the 6 Board to function formally and officially, it only 7 needs two members, but the margin for error is quite 8 small. 9 So the short, long answer to your 10 question is, of course, the Board and the City would 11 benefit if we had two additional members appointed, 12 assuming that the three that are before you are 13 approved. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER COMRIE: What do you 15 see as the biggest challenge facing the Board this 16 year, other than the obvious one? 17 MR. ROMANO: We're a victim of our 18 own successes. We have emphasized considerably in 19 the last three or four years training, and indeed, 20 we had a training session this morning with the 21 Mayor and the Mayor's staff. That emphasis has 22 resulted in an additional request for information, a 23 request for advisory opinions, complaints of alleged 24 violations of Chapter 68. So we continue to be 25 challenged like most of the agencies do in this Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 41 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 environment of doing more with less. That is the 3 administrative challenge. 4 The substantive, legal challenge has 5 to do with, again, the environment that we're in. 6 We're going to be doing more and more, and today's 7 newspaper I think mentioned, more and more of this 8 combining of public and private interests. We're 9 going to have, we're going to be, I think, this is 10 going to be my reading of the tea leaves and the 11 newspapers, as government has fewer resources to 12 expend, they're going to be relying on commercial 13 enterprises and private enterprises to sure up what 14 used to be the municipal services, that is a tricky 15 area for ethics. For obvious reasons we try to keep 16 our private interests and our public interests 17 separate. As a substantive matter that is thing 18 that we're going to be struggling with the most, in 19 my opinion, in the next few years. 20 We're going to have to devise 21 sensible, correct, hopefully, balanced and easily 22 understood rulings in this area where we can ensure 23 the public that the private interests are not 24 corrupting the public interests, and that there is 25 not the divided loyalty prohibited under Chapter 68. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 42 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 And the City and the City Council, included of 3 course, can move in this direction if they decide 4 this is the direction that they need to move in. 5 It is a difficult balancing. 6 COUNCIL MEMBER COMRIE: Do you take 7 public testimony at your hearings? 8 MR. ROMANO: If it is an adjudicatory 9 hearing, if it is a contested proceeding or a trial. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER COMRIE: What if it is 11 a fact- finding hearing? 12 MR. ROMANO: Yes, we do. We have 13 rule- making hearings - - 14 COUNCIL MEMBER COMRIE: Okay. 15 MR. ROMANO: - - where we are 16 considering a rule and we have public notice of it. 17 And I'm sorry to say that I cannot report even 18 having much experience with people showing up for 19 those, but we do fulfill the legal obligation. 20 COUNCIL MEMBER COMRIE: It's a New 21 York City problem. 22 MR. ROMANO: It is. We fulfill the 23 legal obligations, we have, to give public notice of 24 those rule- makings. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER COMRIE: Right, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 43 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 because, I mean, I'm just, based on what you just 3 said about the need for the public, private 4 partnership mix, just in general, maybe it would be 5 an opportunity for you to reach out to other 6 academics or people with that concern to just try to 7 ferret out what their ideas and suggestions would 8 be. 9 MR. ROMANO: It's an excellent idea, 10 and we will look for every opportunity to do that. 11 Because, frankly, we benefit from input from the 12 real world. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER COMRIE: Well I do not 14 want to hog it all. Council Member Fidler. 15 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: Mr. Romano, I 16 want to preference my questions by saying I have 17 absolute confidence in the ethical integrity of our 18 Mayor, and I have no reason to doubt yours in any 19 way. However, I do see that your day job, the thing 20 that pays the mortgage on Garfield Place is your 21 employment as a partner at Wilkie Farr and 22 Gallagher, and that Wilkie Farr has represented the 23 Mayor's business interest and corporate interests, I 24 assume with the City and otherwise. And you 25 indicated in a letter to the Counsel on January 31st Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 44 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 of this year that you would take certain other 3 actions to avoid any appearance of a conflict 4 arising out of the Mayor's direct or indirect 5 relation with the City or entities in which the 6 Mayor has a substantial interest. 7 I would be first to ask you if you 8 could tell us how you define substantial, because I 9 think that is an extraordinarily subjective term, 10 and then what steps you would take that would give 11 us comfort that these actions are meaningful? 12 MR. ROMANO: I appreciate your 13 preliminary observations about my integrity and that 14 of the Mayor's, but I recognize that my personal 15 assurances about being able to be above it all are 16 not sufficient, and they shouldn't be. 17 Let me read from the letter, because 18 I think, I hoped it was, it communicated my approach 19 to trying to solve this problem. 20 Charter Section 26- 04(b)(6) 21 prohibits public servants who are regular employees 22 from representing private interest for compensation 23 before any City agency or appearing directly or 24 indirectly on behalf of private interest in matters 25 involving the City. A regular employee who needs a Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 45 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 public servant whose primary employment as defined 3 by Rule of the Board is with the City. Members of 4 the Board, the Conflict of Interest Board, volunteer 5 their time on a part- time basis and are not regular 6 employees of the City. For Board members, the 7 prohibition of Charter Section 26- 04(b)(6) applies 8 only to the agencies served by such member, which in 9 this case is the Conflicts of Interest Board. Thus, 10 under the Charter I am prohibited from appearing for 11 compensation before the Board, and of course, I have 12 not done so and I will not do so. 13 My firm's representations of clients 14 before the Board could also constitute an indirect 15 appearance by me, because of my ownership interests 16 in the firm, and thus, such representation would 17 also be prohibited. Though the Charter prohibits me 18 and my firm from appearing for compensation before 19 the Board, it would not prohibit me or my firm from 20 appearing for compensation before other City 21 agencies. Nonetheless, to avoid any appearance of a 22 conflict arising from these circumstances I have 23 decided to do the following: 24 I have recused myself from any matter 25 before the Board relating to Bloomberg LP or the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 46 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 Mayor personally, both in respect of participation 3 at the Board and at my firm, and I will continue to 4 do so. I will not take on any new representation of 5 Bloomberg LP or the Mayor that requires me to appear 6 personally before any City agency. And I will not 7 share in any fees earned by my firm relating to its 8 representation of Bloomberg LP or the Mayor in 9 relation to any City matters. 10 In my view, these additional measures 11 go beyond that required by the Charter for public 12 servants who are not regular employees, but should 13 adequately address any reasonable perception that I, 14 personally, can benefit from a representation of 15 Bloomberg LP or the Mayor by my firm, in a matter 16 before the City, or that a decision I make as a 17 member of the Board may benefit Bloomberg LP, Mayor 18 or my firm. 19 I struggle with this because I'm 20 trying to reach the right balance in terms of what 21 is a reasonable perception on the part of the 22 public. Just to get back to your first question, I 23 did not forget it, I do not know if there is a 24 definition of substantial. Generally it means an 25 ownership interest of any significant amount, if Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 47 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 it's shares that are publicly traded under the rules 3 of the Board, we have a percentage, below that it 4 does not constitute an interest, above that it does. 5 To my knowledge the only appearance issue that is 6 raised, it's raised because of my relationship or my 7 firms relationship with Bloomberg LP. 8 So what I have tried to do is 9 structure a reasonable accommodation in light of the 10 fact that I'm not a full- time employee, which I, of 11 course, will not sit on any matter involving 12 Bloomberg LP or the Mayor, personally, while on the 13 Board, I will recuse myself. I will recuse myself 14 internally at the firm, I will not engage in any 15 discussion or any of the behind the scenes advisory 16 regarding any of that. Of course I will not appear 17 before the Board or any other City agency on behalf 18 of Bloomberg LP. 19 I think that takes adequate 20 consideration of the fact that I'm a volunteer and 21 not a full- time employee. It should ensure the 22 public that there is nothing I can say or do at the 23 Board meeting that should influence the outcome to 24 favor my firms client, and I think that is a 25 reasonable accommodation, and it goes beyond, of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 48 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 course, what the Charter requires. 3 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: I appreciate 4 that answer, and we do have a copy of your letter in 5 our file, but it's black letter ethical rule that we 6 stand in the shoes of our partners as attorneys. 7 And so I ask you whether or not Wilkie Farr and 8 Gallagher is currently assisting the Mayor with the 9 issues before the Conflict of Interest Board without 10 your involvement? 11 MR. ROMANO: Of course, I'm recused, 12 so I do not know exactly what they're doing, but I 13 advised them of what the rule requires, so that I 14 would expect that no one from my firm is appearing 15 before the Conflicts of Interest Board on behalf of 16 the Mayor. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: Are they 18 assisting him other than by - - 19 MR. ROMANO: They may well be, and 20 that would not be prohibited by the Charter. This 21 is an appearance bar, and so I am not making a 22 prohibited appearance by virtue of my firms, my 23 membership in my firm. 24 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: And while I 25 am extremely mindful of the fact that your service Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 49 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 with the City is on the volunteer basis, and that, I 3 think the Committee has to take that into 4 consideration, is in our perspective as to what you 5 and Wilkie Farr and Gallagher should or should not 6 be allowed to do. 7 My question would go to Item C, which 8 is you're not sharing any fees earned by your firm 9 relating to representation of Bloomberg LP or the 10 Mayor. I'm a little curious as to how that works, 11 as it is my understanding that partnership 12 distributions are made by firms, such as Wilkie Farr 13 and Gallagher based upon end of the year profits, 14 not necessarily how a particular client effects it. 15 MR. ROMANO: I cannot give you the 16 accounting procedure, but the concept is fairly 17 straightforward. You determine how many fees are 18 earned on a particular matter, you recalculate my 19 partnership interest in the firm minus that amount. 20 So whatever my share of the firm's profits is, the 21 number you start with eliminates those fees in that 22 way I'm not participating in those profits. I think 23 that is generally the way this sort of recusal 24 mechanism, the financial aspect of it, is handled. 25 At least that was my experience at the Department of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 50 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 Justice. 3 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: I just, Mr. 4 Chairman, not by way of question, my concern is the 5 fact that Mr. Romano will be necessarily recusing 6 himself at a time when the Board only has three 7 members. That is certainly does not speak to Mr. 8 Romano, who I think is ethically and otherwise well 9 qualified to continue to serve. I would ask that 10 whatever action we take on this nomination, that we 11 do send a message to the Mayor asking that he fill 12 the other two spots with all due speed. So that if 13 Mr. Romano needs to recuse himself on issues 14 relating to Mayor Bloomberg or Bloomberg LP, that 15 the Board is not strapped with only having two 16 members, but can have a full complement of five. 17 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Okay, I agree 18 with you, Councilman Felder, Fidler, sorry, one of 19 these days I will lock that down, that is Fidler, 20 right, okay, I'm sorry. Council Member Perkins. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: Thank you 22 very much. I should preference my questions with, 23 you know, just echoing the observations of my 24 colleague, Feldman, as it relates to your, this is, 25 Fidler, Fidler, I'm sorry, Feldman, Felder is the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 51 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 other one. So the, you know, just so that there is 3 no question about your integrity or anything like 4 that, I just wanted to get a sense of the times in 5 which you have had to recuse yourself, have you, in 6 the past, recused yourself from any matters? 7 MR. ROMANO: Are we talking about in 8 relationship to my relationship with the Mayor's 9 firm, or all matters? 10 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: Well let's 11 start with the Mayor's firm, and then see what else, 12 we can go from there. 13 MR. ROMANO: Yes, with respect to the 14 Mayor there is something before the Board that I'm 15 recused from. I think it is two issues that are 16 before the Board, or one of them may have been 17 resolved and announced the other day. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: Could you 19 tell us what that was, just for the record? 20 MR. ROMANO: Well from press reports 21 apparently the Board granted a waiver to permit the 22 Mayor's sister- in- law or daughter and one other 23 relative to work for the City. I did not 24 participate in that decision. 25 And there is another matter and I Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 52 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 cannot tell you what it is, because I'm recused from 3 it, but I think it has been well publicized that the 4 Mayor has financial interests that have to be 5 resolved before he ultimately takes, they're in the 6 process of being resolved, but I don't know if that 7 is, I just know I'm, I leave the meetings, I'm not 8 consulted by the staff or my colleagues on the 9 Board. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: And you do 11 not know what the matter is, but you know it has to 12 do with Bloomberg. 13 MR. ROMANO: Right. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: You do not 15 know any of the substance? 16 MR. ROMANO: Right. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: You do not 18 know any of the details? 19 MR. ROMANO: Correct. 20 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: And in the 21 past you have had to recuse yourself on other 22 matters that did not have to do with Bloomberg? 23 MR. ROMANO: Yes. On maybe one 24 occasion, and I'm having trouble recalling what it 25 was. It does not come up very often, actually. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 53 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 Others of my colleagues have had to recuse 3 themselves because of a relationship that their firm 4 had with a party to the proceedings or something 5 like that. And we're familiar with the process, we 6 are on the outlook for those issues, our staff is 7 pretty vigilant about that, so if we do not make the 8 connection immediately, they will. 9 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: Let me ask 10 you a question, the Charter, in reading the Charter 11 you sort of distinguished yourself from other 12 employees because of the fact that you were a 13 volunteer? 14 MR. ROMANO: No, it's a definition of 15 public employee. There is a full- time employee and 16 then there are others. And the rules actually, 17 Chapter 68, actually applies differently to the 18 different groups, and I think it is in consideration 19 of the fact that anyone whose work full- time is in 20 the private sector, I think there has to be a 21 different balancing that is all. 22 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: But the 23 distinction - - 24 MR. ROMANO: This is not my 25 distinction, it is in the Charter. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 54 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: Right. But 3 the distinction seems to be around the words, like 4 volunteer. 5 MR. ROMANO: No, no, no, that is my, 6 that is a colloquy term that I am using to describe, 7 it is not defined in that way in the Charter. The 8 Charter, I think, calls, the terminology is regular 9 employee and other. The public servants are either 10 regular employees or others. And I'm in the other 11 category as many people are. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: Thank you 13 very much. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER RIVERA: First I would 15 like to welcome you to the City Hall and to the 16 Committee on Rules. A number of years ago the Board 17 envisioned allowing City employees to file annual 18 financial disclosure reports electronically. I 19 would like to know where we stand with this 20 initiative to date? 21 MR. ROMANO: We have not given up on 22 this project. We have had technical problems, we 23 have, occasionally, budgetary problems, the new 24 Administration has indicated preliminarily a support 25 for it, we think it is a good idea, it will permit Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 55 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 us to do more with less, we have not found anybody 3 to really make any, who can actually argue cogently 4 against it, so I think it may happen soon. 5 COUNCIL MEMBER RIVERA: Do you know 6 of a specific time line or financial impact of this 7 to take effect? 8 MR. ROMANO: The financial impact 9 will probably save us some staff, but more 10 importantly, and the timing for us, I do not know 11 the answer to that, there are a lot of people in 12 City government who have to be consulted. But the 13 programmatic impact could be enormous, because with 14 electronic filing we will have the ability to cut 15 down on the number of people who file, because right 16 now filers are broken down into categories of pay 17 scale. And unfortunately, at certain pay scale, 18 there are people filing who really pose a very 19 slight risk of a conflict. They're filing because 20 they earn a lot of money, but a doctor who works at 21 the Health and Hospitals Corporation, for example, 22 who is not involved in procurement or sort of 23 outside business activities that would pose a risk, 24 we hope to eliminate a whole group of filers, who 25 really should not be filing, in our view. But the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 56 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 ones who do file, we can search for the relevant 3 information quickly, because we can do it 4 electronically. 5 And so the impact will be, we 6 actually will be able to carry out the Chapter 68 7 mandate that we're required to, but we cannot, 8 because we have 12,000 filers now, and it is not 9 possible to review all those files. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER RIVERA: Okay, thank 11 you very much. 12 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: I meant to do it 13 before you spoke or during my presentation, but, 14 members, you have a copy of a letter from Carol 15 Robles- Roman, the Deputy Mayor from Legal Affairs, 16 and it is also in the package, but, it's stating 17 that they expect to fill the other potential 18 nominees, they're evaluating the other potential 19 nominees for the two remaining vacancies on the 20 Board. They expect to present to us those nominees 21 to fill the vacancies in the near future. I would 22 hope that, that is sooner rather than later. The 23 Conflicts of Interest Board have some very weighing 24 matters that they have to attend to, and I 25 personally think it is a little unfair that Mr. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 57 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 Romano has to be in this position of juxtapose 3 between dealing with matters that are really complex 4 for the entire City, and as I said earlier, we 5 really should get some outside advice on why we have 6 some major, a major issue that has to be dealt with. 7 And also, since he is the senior member, it is 8 almost difficult for you in that capacity to recuse 9 yourself, because the two other members are kind of 10 depending on your advice in that matter. 11 So it is incumbent upon the Mayor's 12 Office to fill those vacancies promptly. 13 All right, Councilman (sic) 14 Provenzano. 15 COUNCIL MEMBER PROVENZANO: Thank 16 you. Did you call me Councilman? 17 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: I'm sorry. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER PROVENZANO: You heard 19 it too, okay. Mr. Romano, I have kind of a delicate 20 question to ask you, but I will throw it out there. 21 In the reports that we went over that were done by 22 our Council folk, it states that you late filed your 23 financial disclosure reports in 1995, 1999 and 2000. 24 And my feeling is that since you're the Acting 25 Chair and I realize that, you know, you have many Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 58 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 personal commitments, as do all of us, but I think 3 as the Acting Chair, we should, you should hold 4 yourself up as the example. So my question, I 5 guess, is two part, not only why, but how did you do 6 in 2001? 7 MR. ROMANO: How did I do in 2001? 8 COUNCIL MEMBER PROVENZANO: That is 9 not here, so were you on time? Oh, we're not due 10 yet, oh, you have time. 11 MR. ROMANO: You're absolutely right, 12 I should be better at getting those forms in on 13 time. I do not know if you got to your second 14 question, but there were personal reasons, having to 15 do with my moving and changing my marital status. 16 It made it very difficult for me to get access to 17 some of the records that I needed to get. And as a 18 result, it took a while to pull the information 19 together. 20 COUNCIL MEMBER PROVENZANO: So 21 hopefully you're all settled now. 22 MR. ROMANO: I hope so. 23 COUNCIL MEMBER PROVENZANO: I totally 24 understand that explanation. And in a private 25 conversation, thank you very much. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 59 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Any other 3 questions? Members? Okay, we will be voting later 4 on in the morning. Thank you very much for 5 appearing before us. 6 The next person will be Jane Parver. 7 Good morning. 8 MS. PARVER: Good morning. 9 MR. FERTIG: Ms. Parver, please raise 10 your right hand? Do you solemnly swear or affirm 11 that the testimony you're about to give is the 12 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 13 MS. PARVER: Yes, I do. 14 MR. FERTIG: Please state your name 15 and affiliation for the record? 16 MS. PARVER: Jane W. Parver. I am a 17 member of the New York City Conflicts of Interest 18 Board, and I am a partner at the Law Firm of Kaye 19 Scholar LLP. 20 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Okay, thank you 21 for coming before us, again. Ms. Parver, why are 22 you interested in continuing to serve on this Board? 23 MS. PARVER: That is a very good 24 question. I think Mr. Romano has already said it 25 for me. As you can see from my background, I spend Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 60 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 a great deal of my life in public service, and I 3 love it. And working on the New York City Conflicts 4 of Interest Board was an excellent way to continue 5 my public service. I have learned an extraordinary 6 amount about New York City, and I must say, when you 7 talk about the continuation of the agency now, we 8 work with a very limited budget, and unfortunately, 9 our opinions and our waiver letters and things that 10 we have done, it's not on an electronic database, so 11 it's very important to have the institutional 12 memory, if you will, and some of us, such as Mr. 13 Romano and myself, and Mr. Green who came a year 14 later, we really remember the history of what we 15 have done and that informs us as we go forward. 16 If I could, Mr. Chairman, you asked 17 Mr. Romano about a three versus five- person Board, 18 and we certainly would welcome the additional Board 19 members. It always benefits everyone to have 20 diverse views, there is no question about it. But 21 there is a learning curve involved. Many of you who 22 have even tried to read Chapter 68 know it's a big 23 learning curve. One of the issues we have been 24 working on is trying to translate it into plain 25 English, but just learning the history of the Board Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 61 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 decisions and understanding, and understanding how 3 some of the agencies work, and what their needs are, 4 what the Council's needs are, it is a big learning 5 curve, and therefore, I feel that having experienced 6 Board members continue on the Board does serve a 7 very big purpose. 8 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: I'm sorry I did 9 not ask you if you had an opening statement. 10 MS. PARVER: I guess I gave it. 11 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: I guess that was 12 it. Okay. 13 MS. PARVER: But I did want to 14 respond, if you will, to some of the other questions 15 that were asked of Mr. Romano. 16 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Sure. 17 MS. PARVER: In the past, just about 18 eight years, I guess, that I have been on the Board, 19 I think I have had to recuse myself three times, 20 which is not a lot. As Mr. Romano said, it just 21 does not come up very often. I can tell you 22 unequivocally that Mr. Romano has not participated 23 in any way, shape or form in terms of any of the 24 recent decisions, the waiver letters that the Board 25 issued with respect to the new Mayor, and he will Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 62 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 not participate in any way, shape or form, and with 3 any decision that involves Bloomberg LP or the Mayor 4 or any relationship of the Mayor or affiliate of the 5 Mayor. 6 Mr. Green and I have been very busy 7 and we communicate very, very often, it does take a 8 lot of time, we work a lot by phone, by email, by 9 faxes, and we also have separate meetings not with 10 Mr. Romano. So I did want to give the Council, 11 those were good questions to ask, and I wanted to 12 give you our assurances that the integrity of our 13 proceedings is extremely important to us, and we 14 will uphold that. 15 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: I have no doubt 16 on your integrity or Mr. Green's or Mr. Romano's, I 17 just feel for you because you're dealing with 18 something unprecedented and you need you help, and 19 that is why I mentioned about getting outside input 20 and resources and maybe testimony from other people, 21 because it's, I do not want to say what is my 22 position on it is, but it is a critical juncture in 23 this City's history, and then in the state of our 24 economy, your decision on that and the other things 25 that Mr. Romano alluded to, dealing with Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 63 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 public/private entities in cooperation, and I think 3 that that decision, which is a key decision will set 4 a standard for a lot of things to come very quickly. 5 So I would offer our assistance and 6 the Counsel's assistance in any way in try to help 7 shape that debate before you had to make a final 8 decision. I'm not sure that you even allowed public 9 debate on it or any input or resources or references 10 that maybe we could help gather for you. You know 11 that is a two- person Committee, you know, that is 12 not easy. 13 MS. PARVER: Well certainly on 14 public/private partnership issues, I do not expect 15 Mr. Romano would be conflicted. And we have already 16 gotten into it, when you deal with the Central Park 17 Conservancy issues, when you deal with the New York 18 City Partnership issues, we have been sort of 19 working along with those issues, sorting out 20 public/private, the Walt Disney Company held its 21 Pocahontas celebration, I guess, in Central Park, 22 there were many issues that came up. So those are 23 issues that are not new to us, but I think they're 24 going to be exacerbated, I guess, in this current 25 atmosphere in which we're in. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 64 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 I will tell you, for new Council 3 members, and both Councilmen and Councilwoman, we do 4 try to work as closely as we can with the City 5 Council, particularly on issues that we think really 6 relate to the Council. Whenever we have had new 7 thoughts about new rules or even opinions on gifts, 8 tickets, campaigning, what an elected official can 9 do in terms of supporting someone else and raising 10 funds for somebody else or anything. We have worked 11 very closely in the past, and we expect to continue 12 to work closely with both Felix Ciampa, your Chief 13 Ethics person, and also we did work very closely 14 with Richard Weinberg, who was Counsel to Speaker 15 Vallone on a lot of these, and we continually 16 solicited the Council's input to help us understand 17 the needs of the different City organizations, as we 18 try to interpret the Charter in light of those 19 needs. 20 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Any other member 21 here? Well no one else, okay, well, thank you very 22 much for your time, Ms. Parver. We will be voting 23 at the end. Thank you. 24 Mr. Green. 25 MR. GREEN: Good morning. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 65 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Good morning. 3 MR. FERTIG: Mr. Green, please, raise 4 your right hand? Do you solemnly swear or affirm 5 that the testimony you're about to give it the 6 truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? 7 MR. GREEN: I do. 8 MR. FERTIG: Please, state your name 9 and affiliation for the record? 10 MR. GREEN: My name is Bruce A. 11 Green. I'm a member of the New York City's 12 Conflicts of Interest Board, and a Professor at 13 Fordham University School of Law. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER COMRIE: Do you have 15 an opening statement, Mr. Green? 16 MR. GREEN: I do not, but I would 17 just say that I welcome the opportunity to answer 18 questions, and it has been a privilege to serve on 19 the Conflicts of Interest Board so far. 20 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Well I will ask 21 you the same question I asked Ms. Parver, why are 22 you interested in continuing to serve on the Board? 23 MR. GREEN: Well I guess I have to 24 give pretty much the same answer that Ms. Parver 25 gave. On a personal level it's a privilege to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 66 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 engage in public service, which is something I have 3 done throughout my professional career. I teach at 4 a law school whose motto is "In the Service of 5 Others," and we graduated Rose Gill Hearn, so I 6 think we're doing a pretty good job. 7 And also from the City's perspective, 8 I think there is an importance in continuity, which 9 is why the terms of the Conflicts of Interest Board 10 are staggered. There was a tremendous learning 11 curve for me at the beginning, there still is 12 actually, a pretty big learning curve, and I think 13 it is important to have, at least, some members who 14 have been there for a while. 15 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: The Mayor has 16 stated every agency has to do more with less. What 17 in your opinion should the agency be doing to 18 increase productivity and reduce size? 19 MR. GREEN: I think that is a 20 challenge in question, because pretty much this 21 Conflicts of Interest Board's budget is taken up by 22 staff. And, at least, in the time I have been on 23 the Board, the staff has not changed much in size, 24 and yet the productivity has increased by multiples, 25 almost experientially. In terms, for example, the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 67 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 number of advisory opinions and the speed with which 3 the advisory opinions are given out, in terms of the 4 number of enforcement cases. I think part of that 5 has involved the benefits of technology, and 6 hopefully that technology will provide the ability 7 to be increasingly productive, including, if it 8 should come to pass, financial disclosure filings by 9 computer. 10 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Is there a 11 backlog, or what would be the scope of the backlog, 12 to date, is your opinion? 13 MR. GREEN: There really isn't in my 14 view. When, I think in 1996, it took on average, or 15 more than, you know, several months to get advisory 16 opinions out, now the median is 18 days. And just to 17 put that into perspective, I am a past Chair of 18 State Bar Ethics Committee that also gives advice, 19 advice to lawyers, and the median, I should think, 20 for the State Bar Committee is several months. So I 21 think the Conflicts of Interest Board is doing a 22 pretty good job. 23 Also, on the enforcement side, when I 24 joined, and certainly before I joined, enforcement 25 cases were quite, it took quite a while, the staff Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 68 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 has increased, the relationship with the Department 3 of Investigation has greatly improved. And 4 enforcement matters now, I think, are done quite 5 efficiently as well. I think all of that really is 6 more a tribute to the staff than it is the Board 7 members. 8 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: I can see, you 9 written extensively on legal ethic issues, and I'm 10 sure that you have a wealth of resources that you 11 probably tapped in dealing with the opinions for the 12 Conflicts of Interest Board. Do you feel that the 13 Board is doing an adequate job of informing agency 14 personnel of ethical concerns, and if not, what 15 additional steps could be taken? 16 MR. GREEN: I think that the Board is 17 doing a very good job, and certainly over the years 18 an increasingly good job. First of all, the number 19 of publications that are produced and distributed to 20 the City government employees and agencies has 21 increased, the number of trainings done for 22 agencies, including training the trainers at the 23 agencies has increased. I think that what is 24 important is to have, if it could be done, mandated 25 training at the agencies, and also, I think it is Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 69 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 important for each agency to have somebody who is 3 designated as an Ethics Officer who him or herself 4 becomes sophisticated about Chapter 68 issues, who 5 identifies issues as they arise, who is familiar 6 with the process, and who is in touch with the staff 7 of the Conflicts of Interest Board when questions 8 arise. 9 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Any other 10 members? Councilman. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: I hope I'm 12 not displaying my bias as a graduate of the finest 13 law school in the City of New York, which of course, 14 would be NYU. To note that all three of you guys, 15 currently sitting on the Board are Columbia 16 graduates, there is nothing we need to be concerned 17 about there, is there? 18 MR. GREEN: I do not think so, I 19 would say some of my best friends are NYU grads. 20 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: Actually I 21 have even a more thoroughly obnoxious question to 22 ask of you, but it's, you know, having seen your 23 resume in ethics, I just feel compelled to ask your 24 advice for this body as to whether or not having 25 seen what Mr. Romano has proposed to do in terms of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 70 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 recusal relating to issues regarding Bloomberg LP, 3 whether ethically you feel that we should be 4 comfortable with those steps and whether they're 5 sufficient? 6 MR. GREEN: Well I can only give my 7 personal view, because obviously the Council has its 8 own experience and perspective on the issue. 9 Basically, the issue for the Conflict of Interest 10 Board is to be sure that the recusal satisfies 11 Chapter 68, which it does. What Mr. Romano has 12 proposed to do goes well beyond that in order to 13 address, and of course, Chapter 68, itself, is 14 concerned about appearance of impropriety and making 15 sure that City government employees do not engage in 16 conduct that might give rise to an appearance of 17 impropriety. So what Mr. Romano is doing, as I 18 understand it, is avoiding not only an appearance of 19 impropriety, but an appearance of an appearance of 20 impropriety, and I think that should give the 21 Council some comfort. 22 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: Actually I 23 was half expecting you to recuse yourself in 24 answering the question. But I am comforted by your 25 ethical opinion. Thank you. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 71 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Any other 3 members with questions? Thank you very much for 4 appearing before us, Mr. Green. 5 Our next person is John Merolo. Good 6 afternoon. 7 MR. MEROLO: Good afternoon. 8 MR. FERTIG: Mr. Merolo, please, 9 raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear or 10 affirm that the testimony you're about to give is 11 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 12 truth? 13 MR. MEROLO: I do. 14 MR. FERTIG: Please, state your name 15 and affiliation for the record? 16 MR. MEROLO: My name is John Merolo. 17 I am currently on the City Planning Commission, I'm 18 the representative of Staten Island. 19 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Do you have an 20 opening statement, Mr. Merolo? 21 MR. MEROLO: Yes, I do. Members of 22 the City Council, good afternoon, originally it 23 said, good morning. Let me begin by saying that for 24 the past year and a half I have been proud and 25 honored to serve as Staten Island's appointment to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 72 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 the New York City Planning Commission. Now I 3 welcome the opportunity afforded me by Borough 4 President James Molinaro to continue that service. 5 We're living in a crucial time in New York City's 6 history as we move forward in rebuilding our 7 economic base, while creating new opportunities for 8 positive growth and prosperity. Daily development 9 is and always has been a pivotal part of urban 10 economic growth, and New York City's remarkable 11 strength. However, any development can only be 12 successful through proper planning, recognizing 13 growth as inevitable, while understanding the need 14 for aesthetics and open space. 15 For my part as Staten Island's 16 representative, I am particularly committed to 17 maintaining a balance between development and 18 conservation. I do not want to stop development, 19 yet I am emphatically not in favor of over 20 development, which can detract from the appearance 21 of communities and compromise residents quality- of- 22 life. We believe that the rezoning applications put 23 together by the Staten Island Borough President, 24 James P. Molinaro's Office, which are under review 25 by City Planning, will be part of a master plan in Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 73 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 fostering rational development in my burgeoning 3 community. For Staten Island the proper development 4 is development that enhances rather than detracts 5 from the existing characteristic appearance in our 6 neighborhoods, which blends in with the surrounding 7 area. 8 By way of background, for 10 years I 9 have been active as a licensed real estate 10 appraiser. On conducting a property appraisal, it 11 is standard procedure to also analyze the 12 neighborhood in which the property is located. In 13 turn, when land use projects are brought before the 14 City Planning Commission, our review must all 15 contain a review of the surrounding area and how the 16 proposed project will impact the character of that 17 area. I pledge to work with my colleagues at City 18 Planning to see that this remains an important 19 aspect of our review. 20 In conclusion, I want to state that I 21 very much look forward to my continued service with 22 the City Planning Commission. I hope to help bring 23 innovative and helpful ideas to this vital group. 24 Thank you for your time, and good 25 day. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 74 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: I'm going to 3 defer to my Minority Leader to ask the first 4 question, Mr. Oddo? 5 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Thank you very 6 much, Mr. Chairman. Actually, it is not really a 7 question, I just want to provide some history for my 8 colleagues. As you look in the briefing books that 9 we are provided by staff you might see that there 10 was a bit of a controversy surrounding Mr. Merolo 11 during the last Council. And I just want all of my 12 colleagues to share the benefit of the institutional 13 memory that I have of it. Please, understand that 14 that controversy in my mind was contrived. It was 15 during a campaign season, a campaign season in which 16 the over development issue was the key issue on 17 Staten Island, and one of our former colleagues, 18 someone who is a dear friend, very frankly, played 19 the cards that he had in his hands and he was 20 couching himself as the over development candidate, 21 and it made a whole lot of political sense to object 22 to the reappointment of Mr. Merolo. 23 Initially, that objection was based 24 on the fact that Mr. Merolo's term would outlive, if 25 you will, the sitting Council. But when we did some Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 75 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 research and demonstrated that there were many 3 appointments made both by the Mayor and by the 4 Council, and the Council in the recent past had 5 appointed people that would extend past our terms, 6 the argument changed that from the process to the 7 merits of Mr. Merolo. 8 Again, I think it was contrived at 9 the time, I think Mr. Merolo has done a fine job. I 10 have worked with him, I plan to work with him. As 11 he mentioned in his testimony, the Borough 12 President, the new Borough President will be 13 submitting six rezoning applications, which are 14 critical to the quality- of- life in my district, 15 and all of Staten Island. 16 So while you peruse the staff's hard 17 work, please understand that the political climate 18 and nature surrounding this "controversy," and on 19 the merits, I support Mr. Merolo 100 percent, and I 20 ask all of my colleagues to do the same. 21 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 22 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Thank you, 23 Council member. Council Member Avella, and then 24 Council Member Katz. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER AVELLA: Good morning. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 76 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 MR. MEROLO: Good morning. 3 COUNCIL MEMBER AVELLA: As you may 4 know, I'm Chair of the Subcommittee on Zoning and 5 Franchises, so I'm extremely interested in your 6 appointment. Also having been a community activist, 7 who has worked on zoning issues for the past two 8 decades, I'm curious about a couple of issues. As 9 you know, a lot of communities have tried to apply 10 under the contextual zoning categories, which would 11 protect from over development. And there has always 12 been an issue, at least, in Queens in terms of does 13 the City Planning Council, Department of City 14 Planning have enough staff to fully evaluate those 15 applications and move them ahead expeditiously, I'm 16 curious to what your thoughts are on this, and how 17 do you feel about contextual zoning? 18 MR. MEROLO: Well I know one of the 19 complaints that we hear quite often from people that 20 have their applications at City Planning is, it 21 takes forever. I can only speak, at this time, I 22 can be most helpful with our local Staten Island 23 Office in trying to process applications quicker 24 there, and then getting them into Manhattan. Then 25 once they get to Manhattan, then it is, obviously, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 77 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 the job of the people that work at 22 Reed to move 3 them forward. 4 As far as contextual zoning, I think 5 that it does serve a very important process in that 6 sometimes we do have pockets that require a 7 contextual zoning rather than looking to change a 8 larger area, or maybe it requires a zoning which is 9 just a little different than what could normally be 10 applied, so I do think that is very important that 11 we have a vehicle such as contextual zoning. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER AVELLA: Thank you. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Mr. Merolo, 14 thank you for appearing before us. And as Chair of 15 the Land Use Committee, I know that we will be 16 working quite a bit together in overseeing the City 17 Planning Commission, so I want to beg my colleagues 18 deference in asking just a few questions, if I 19 might. As you know a lot of talk has been given to 20 Lower Manhattan. One of the things that the City 21 Council and the Mayor and New York City, in general, 22 has been talking about is what role we have in 23 rebuilding Lower Manhattan. There is 16 acres down 24 there, obviously, that are under the State authority 25 right now, and this new authority that was built. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 78 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 Do you have any ideas on how we can 3 have a role as New York City and the City Council in 4 making sure that Lower Manhattan, rebuilding and 5 economic development surrounding the area is done in 6 combination with the City Council and the Mayor? 7 MR. MEROLO: Well it's my 8 understanding that the State seems to have more - - 9 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Could you speak 10 into the microphone? Thank you. 11 MR. MEROLO: It seems that the State 12 has more of the say as to what goes on in the 16- 13 acre area that was the World Trade Center. I can 14 only hope that as they begin to formulate their 15 ideas, that they do reach out to the City agencies 16 here and share those ideas and get our opinions 17 prior to moving forward on what they think may be a 18 good idea. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: If I could just 20 make a suggestion, and I will bring it up to your 21 colleagues also in the City Planning Commission, we 22 probably have to do a little more than just hope, 23 you know, we have to figure out some way that the 24 City Council, the Committees that we formed have 25 more of a say on what is going on down there, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 79 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 especially since it really, and I think everyone 3 understands this, it's not really the 16 acres, it's 4 the entire lower development of Manhattan. 5 Another avenue, have bonuses, do you 6 feel, been encouraging private development to build 7 public amenities, do you believe that has worked, 8 incentive zoning? 9 MR. MEROLO: I'm sorry? 10 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Incentive 11 zoning? 12 MR. MEROLO: You mean such as tax 13 abatements and things of that nature? 14 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Tax abatements, 15 using zoning in order to encourage the development 16 of housing and educational facilities. 17 MR. MEROLO: I believe that the tax 18 abatement programs have been a major player in 19 having development to take place in all of New York 20 City. They are a key element. 21 Zoning is something that gives us 22 control over what will move forward in particular 23 areas, and I look at zoning as more of a control 24 rather than something that is used to promote 25 growth. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 80 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: So you would be 3 more into site selection zoning as opposed to a 4 total comprehensive plan? 5 MR. MEROLO: Well I believe that a 6 total comprehensive plan is what is needed. But if 7 you, you specifically asked me about zoning, I 8 believe zoning is a control method. 9 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Okay, so you 10 would use zoning in order to promote certain 11 developments, and the incentives, you believe, are 12 working? 13 MR. MEROLO: In that regard, yes. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Thank you very 15 much. 16 MR. MEROLO: You're welcome. 17 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: This is more of 18 a suggestion more then a question, Mr. Merolo. Many 19 community boards, especially in Queens, they're 20 dealing with over development, over population, over 21 siting, community facilities. And in my district, 22 which primarily residential, we're now starting to 23 experience, we have a lot of oversized lots in my 24 district, and I do not want to turn, my district to 25 turn into Flushing where those oversized lots what Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 81 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 got turned into homes of worship and medical offices 3 and et cetera. So I would strongly urge you to 4 utilize the community boards, the City Planning 5 Commission, the community boards have the 197- A 6 Plans, and I would strongly suggest to the City 7 Planning Commission that they come out and do 8 training for the community boards, so that they 9 could come up with these total comprehensive zoning 10 plans. So that the owners would not have to be on 11 the City Planning Commission to do spot decisions. 12 Because it is almost impossible to look at the 13 entire nature of a community, when you're dealing 14 with one application at a time. 15 I would strongly suggest that part of 16 your mission, or if you would make it part of your 17 mission to allow the City Planning Commission to 18 come out and train the Community Boards on zoning 19 and the development of their 197- A plans so that 20 they could come up with a total comprehensive zoning 21 plan for the entire Community Board, as opposed to 22 dealing with spot applications. Because as you look 23 at one application, vis- a- vis, another 24 application, vis- a- vis, a community, the Board 25 does not really have the capability to know what the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 82 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 context and character of a community is. So I would 3 strongly suggest that they take that on as a 4 mission, that it should be a high priority for the 5 City Planning Commission. 6 And also, again, I will ask the 7 Mayor's Office to please put some other members on 8 the City Planning Commission, truly reflect the 9 entire talent that this City has to offer. So if 10 you could take that back, I'm not looking for a 11 comment at this time. 12 Thank you very much. 13 Do you have a question? Yes, thank 14 you very much, Mr. Merolo. At this time we would 15 like to move to the vote. Do we need to get anyone? 16 Yes, Councilman. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER AVELLA: Yes, I would 18 move that we approve of the five nominees that were 19 presented to us today, and additionally send a 20 message to the Mayor asking that he send us two 21 additional nominees for the Conflict of Interest 22 Board with all due speed. 23 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: And also work on 24 filling out that City Planning Commission, so that 25 we can have members that can reflect the entire City Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 83 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 in a changing environment. 3 COUNCIL MEMBER AVELLA: I would 4 accept that as a friendly amendment. 5 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Can we have all 6 the members that need to be here. 7 MR. FERTIG: I believe the Sergeant- 8 At- Arms has called the members, and the clerk is 9 ready to call the roll. 10 Okay, we're ready to call the roll. 11 COUNCIL CLERK: Comrie. 12 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Aye. 13 COUNCIL CLERK: Provenzano. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER PROVENZANO: Aye on 15 all. 16 COUNCIL CLERK: Quinn. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER QUINN: Aye. 18 COUNCIL CLERK: Rivera. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER RIVERA: Aye on all. 20 COUNCIL CLERK: Avella. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER AVELLA: Aye to all. 22 COUNCIL CLERK: Baez. 23 COUNCIL MEMBER BAEZ: Aye. 24 COUNCIL CLERK: Clarke. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER CLARKE: Yes on all. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 84 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 COUNCIL CLERK: Fidler. 3 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: Yes. 4 COUNCIL CLERK: Katz. 5 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Aye. 6 COUNCIL CLERK: Weprin. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER WEPRIN: Aye on all. 8 COUNCIL CLERK: Oddo. 9 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Yes. 10 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Can we hold the 11 vote open for Council Member Perkins, but can we 12 note that - - 13 MR. FERTIG: Here he is. 14 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Oh. 15 COUNCIL CLERK: Perkins. 16 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: I vote aye 17 on all, thank you. 18 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Okay, members, 19 remember the, yes, the red books are confidential, 20 they must be returned to the staff. 21 So all of the five persons are 22 adopted, 12 in the affirmative, the only person that 23 is missing is the Speaker and I'm sure that, so all 24 are adopted, and I think that brings this proceeding 25 to an end. Do you have any other questions or Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 85 1 RULES, PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS 2 statement? 3 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Let me just 4 make a request that we receive from the Committee 5 resumes of all five of the candidates and maybe 6 contact phone numbers. 7 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: Yes, you have - 8 - 9 MR. FERTIG: All Council members 10 received it in their mail boxes. 11 CHAIRPERSON COMRIE: All right, 12 everyone has it in their mailbox. Please, remember 13 the confidential booklets must be returned to the 14 staff. Again, I want thank the Counsel, the Rules 15 Committee staff for the excellent work in the 16 preparation for today. Thank you every one here 17 this morning. 18 (Hearing concluded at 12:10 p.m.) 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 86 1 2 CERTIFICATION 3 4 5 STATE OF NEW YORK ) 6 COUNTY OF NEW YORK ) 7 8 9 I, PAT WTULICH, a Notary Public in 10 and for the State of New York, do hereby certify 11 that the foregoing is a true and accurate transcript 12 of the within proceeding. 13 I further certify that I am not 14 related to any of the parties to this action by 15 blood or marriage, and that I am in no way 16 interested in the outcome of this matter. 17 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto 18 set my hand this 6th day of February 2001. 19 20 21 22 23 --------------------- 24 PAT WTULICH 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 87 1 2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I, PAT WTULICH, do hereby certify the 10 aforesaid to be a true and accurate copy of the 11 transcription of the audio tapes of this hearing. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 ----------------------- PAT WTULICH 23 24 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410