1 2 CITY COUNCIL 3 CITY OF NEW YORK 4 -------------------------------x 5 THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE MINUTES 6 of the 7 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 8 -------------------------------x 9 10 April 17, 2008 Start: 10:26 a.m. 11 Recess: 12:17 p.m. 12 City Hall Council Chamber 13 New York, New York 14 B E F O R E: 15 HELEN SEARS 16 Chairperson, 17 COUNCIL MEMBERS: Charles Barron 18 James Sanders Sara Gonzalez 19 Letitia James Melissa Mark-Viverito 20 Darlene Mealy Joel Rivera 21 Rosie Mendez 22 23 24 LEGAL-EASE COURT REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 17 Battery Place - Suite 1308 25 New York, New York 10004 (800) 756-3410 2 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S 3 Gina L. Bolden-Rivera 4 New York Women's Agenda 5 Beverly Neufeld Co-Chair, Governmental Affairs Committee 6 New York Women's Agenda 7 Joan D. Firestone Governmental Affairs Committee 8 New York Women's Agenda 9 Marilyn Gittell Howard Samuels Center, CUNY 10 Dina Bakst 11 Co-President/Co-Founder A Better Balance 12 Natatia L. Griffith 13 Former President New York Coalition of One Hundred Black Women, Inc. 14 Commissioner, NYC Commission on Women's Issues 15 Karen Karpowich First Vice President 16 New York Women's Agenda 17 Linda Hartley Vice President for Quality of Life 18 New York Women's Agenda 19 Jack Tuckner, Esquire Tuckner Sipser Weinstock & Sipser, LLP 20 Ann J. Jawin 21 Founder/Chair of Board of Directors Center for the Women of New York 22 Sheila Lambert 23 Bottomless Closet 24 Carolyn Sevos Public Policy Vice President 25 National Association of Women Business Owners 3 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Good morning, 3 everyone. I'm delighted to see you up here for the 4 hearing and I'd like to thank everyone for coming 5 today. 6 In 1963, I'm going to just read some 7 little facts here, the Equal Pay Act was signed into 8 law by the President, John F. Kennedy. It was 9 considered a great step forward for women in the 10 workplace. 11 Women, and those who supported 12 fairness celebrated this legislation. Although 13 progress has been made since that time, we are again 14 nearly 45 years later discussing pay disparities 15 between genders. 16 We should all be shaking our head at 17 this. Some of us are 45 years older. Some of us are 18 just in one decade to reach that in a few but it's 19 really kind of staggering. 20 The 2007 report by the Academic 21 Association of University Women entitled "Behind The 22 Pay Gap" found that only after one year out of 23 college women working full time earned only 80 24 percent as much as their male colleagues. 25 Pay inequity affects entire families 4 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 and affects a mother's ability to provide for her 3 children. Women are more likely than men to live in 4 poverty. Almost three times as many women as men 5 live at a subsistence level in their old age. 6 Today we're hearing testimony on two 7 resolutions which support legislation addressing 8 this important topic. 9 The first is Resolution 1152, which 10 calls upon the United States Congress to pass and 11 the President to sign into law the Paycheck Fairness 12 Act. 13 The Paycheck Fairness Act would 14 reduce wage and equity by clarifying rights to pay 15 equity, enhancing enforcement mechanisms of the 16 Equal Pay Act and requiring training on matters of 17 wage discrimination. 18 The Act was introduced by Senator 19 Hillary Clinton and Congressmember Rosa Deloro. The 20 second, which is Resolution 896-A, calls upon the 21 New York State Legislature to pass and the Governor 22 to sign the Pay Equity Legislative package. The Pay 23 Equity package includes several pieces of 24 legislation, addressing various aspects of pay 25 inequity, by ensuring that pay disparities are not 5 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 based on a person's sex or national origin, raise 3 wages and living standards, as well as Social 4 Security and pension contributions, and promotes 5 stable families. 6 Today we will hear from advocates of 7 Pay Equity, such as the New York Women's Agenda, and 8 100 Black Women. 9 Before we proceed, I want to 10 introduce my colleague Charles Barron, who is a 11 member of this Committee, and I applaud him for 12 being a member of the Committee, he is a very 13 dedicated and staunch member. 14 The Council Member that just left, 15 because there is a hearing that is starting there, 16 is Joel Rivera. And he is expecting, he's going to 17 be a father, a girl, I said to him, your daughter 18 may have to wait 40 years before she has equal pay, 19 and he looked, right Charles? And he never thought 20 of it that way. I said, so, you should be in this 21 hearing, even though he's not a member of the 22 Committee. 23 But I do want to say, I said 24 something to the reporter outside, that when we 25 reduce things to numbers there are many reasons why 6 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 women are single heads of households, not just from 3 some of the stigmas that are attached to it. They 4 become widows. They lose their husbands through 5 serious health illnesses, die very young and they're 6 left with small children. We don't often think about 7 that when we talk about women as being the heads of 8 households. 9 We don't talk about women who are 10 removed from their homes due to fire, and create 11 economic stresses because of that. We don't think of 12 women as encountering other extreme family 13 difficulties that compel them to make some very 14 harsh decisions about changing the environment. We 15 don't think about women who suffer from domestic 16 violence and how they have to get away from that, 17 and become the heads of their families and have to 18 protect their children. 19 These, and many more, are reasons why 20 women are heads of households. And the fact that in 21 many of the cases when you talk about the bottom 22 line, talking about making a difference of about 23 four and five-thousand dollars, as we are addressing 24 the lower economic scale. That pays for day care, it 25 enables them to get off public assistance, it 7 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 enables them to provide and get some affordable and 3 decent housing. So, we're not talking about handouts 4 and we're not talking about there is that old story 5 again. 6 And I do think that one of the things 7 that I'm going to ask everybody to do, is because 8 there is a stigma attached to single heads of 9 households, and so many, and certainly as we look 10 down the pay scale, we see that black women have 11 less and Latina women have even fewer than that, 12 that we must begin to address the issue as it truly 13 is for women. Why are they the single heads of 14 households? Why do they need to have that equal pay? 15 Not because they're just demanding it. There is an 16 absolute reason for that. They have the same gifts, 17 they have the same qualifications, they have the 18 same disciplines, they have the same social 19 responsibilities, and they have the same family 20 responsibility. There is no reason that the pay 21 shouldn't be the same. And it certainly isn't 22 removing men from any positions. 23 That is something that should be gone 24 many, many, many years ago, because as the economy 25 changes and we look at the different workforces, we 8 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 look at women in non-traditional jobs, so all the 3 doors are opening up, and there are so many groups 4 here that help the women reenter the job force. 5 So, I think that when we do this, we 6 must also look at the fact that we need to bring 7 level, not women, not just to the level, this is my 8 own personal feeling, and why I'm addressing it this 9 way, not just to the level of fair pay, but I think 10 we have to bring them to the level of the fact that 11 they are qualified human beings who are working in 12 the job force and deserve not to be discriminated, 13 and that is how I think we basically need to do 14 that. 15 And I want to thank all of you for 16 being here, because you have just been so active for 17 all these years, and I think we're just going to 18 have to step to a faster tune, because I think if we 19 don't do that, I think we're going to be doing a fox 20 trot, and I can see that happening so we're not 21 going to do that. 22 I want to introduce Rachel Cordero, 23 to my left, who is counsel to the Committee; 24 Mark-Viverito, member of the Committee; Charles 25 Barron who is a member of the Committee. 9 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 I know Charles is going to have to 3 leave us for a few minutes to go next door. Charles, 4 I think I will turn the mike over to you for a 5 moment. You're always very sincere in all your 6 expressions of support. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER BARRON: Thank you very 8 much, Chair Sears. I think this is the most timely 9 hearing, and I want to say that I am 1,000 percent, 10 we shouldn't even be having a hearing on this in the 11 21st century. This should have been resolved a long 12 time ago, and there is enough on the books for the 13 enforcement and the enactment of equity. 14 And women, you know, they say in 15 other countries the degree of a country's awareness, 16 political and revolutionary awareness, can be 17 measured by its treatment of its women, and you want 18 to see how our society is doing, just see how they 19 treat their women and how they treat their children. 20 You know, I know this is separating 21 church from state, but the Bible says where one's 22 heart is, so lies their treasure. And we know, it 23 seems that the heart of the men in power is in war 24 and in allowing poverty to exist, just the thought 25 that if we had equity pay for women, that poverty 10 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 would be decreased by 40, 50 percent, that $200 3 billion would go into the economy, that we would 4 need less public assistance if we were just fair. No 5 one is begging for anything, we're just demanding 6 fairness. And then for women of color, black and 7 Latino women, there is triple oppression - they got 8 to deal with class issues, they got to deal with 9 gender issues, and deal with race issues. 10 So, this is timely, and we're just 11 having hearings now. We need to get on up out of 12 these hearings and let's take it to the, and put 13 some heat on them, let them feel some pressure, 14 because once they feel some pressure, things change. 15 If women get on the move like you're 16 quite capable of doing, things will change. 17 So, I'm very optimistic and I've 18 always said this, and I'm not saying this to placate 19 you, because I'm among women, but I say this no 20 matter where I am, we need more women in power, in 21 positions of power, except, and don't get angry at 22 me, after Barack Obama wins, then you can all have 23 more women. I don't want you to be confused about 24 that remark, and it's not because of any gender 25 questions. I think he's the better candidate. So, 11 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 after Barack, then we need a woman as President. 3 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: You're closing 4 your ears. 5 COUNCIL MEMBER BARRON: Well, how 6 about, I got an idea, take over the Congress and the 7 Senate, then it won't matter who is the President. 8 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Well, we need men 9 to help us get there. Because men vote. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER BARRON: I'll help. 11 Just leave Barack alone. I'll help. 12 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: All right. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER BARRON: No, but thank 14 you very much. In all sincerity, I am with you 1,000 15 percent, because it's long overdue and there are 16 certain issues in the 21st century we shouldn't even 17 be having. And the gender discrimination is one, 18 racial discrimination is another and class 19 discrimination is the other. 20 Thank you very much, and I wish you 21 the best. 22 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Thank you, 23 Councilman. 24 We're going to call our first panel. 25 We have Gina Bolden Rivera, Beverly Neufeld and Joan 12 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 Firestone. 3 Okay, whenever you are ready. Do you 4 want to start with, Joan, would you like to start 5 first? How ever you wish to go. Okay, fine. 6 So, Joan is going -- not Joan, sorry. 7 MS. BOLDEN-RIVERA: Gina. 8 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Gina. 9 MS. BOLDEN-RIVERA: Thank you. I'd 10 like to start off by -- 11 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Before you start, 12 it's being recorded so please introduce yourself. 13 It's on when the light is on. That's just a new 14 thing. 15 MS. BOLDEN-RIVERA: Okay. 16 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Because before we 17 had no lights. When it was on we didn't know, when 18 it was off we didn't know. So, please introduce 19 yourself. 20 MS. BOLDEN-RIVERA: Good morning. My 21 name is Gina Bolden-Rivera, and I am a past 22 president of the New York Women's Agenda. 23 I'd like to thank you for giving me 24 the opportunity to testify today, and I'd like to 25 tell you a little bit about NYWA first. 13 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 NYWA was established by Ellie 3 Gugenheimer in 1992, in honor to bring together 4 diverse women's organizations in New York City under 5 one umbrella, to create one voice, and one vote. 6 The issue of pay equity is an issue 7 that is very important to NYWA, and I recently 8 experienced a rally in Harlem of women and as I 9 walked by this rally outside of a nail salon, the 10 women were protesting for pay equity. It was a 11 Korean group of women, and so I couldn't even 12 understand what they were saying, but I felt their 13 pain. And I thought about the fact that we're still 14 talking about the same thing, pay equity. And it 15 caused me to think about the fact that this issue 16 impacts an entire lifecycle of the people impacted 17 by it. 18 They start out with less wages, which 19 causes them to be able to afford less, particularly 20 in a City like New York, where it's so costly to 21 live. They therefore require public assistance in 22 order to feed their families and house their 23 families. Their families cannot take advantage of 24 the American Dream, they then have less wages to 25 calculate their pensions and social security, 14 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 resulting in them living below wages and below 3 standards, as senior citizens. 4 Equal pay, fair pay, equitable pay is 5 necessary. Otherwise, we bind families in a cycle of 6 poverty. We support the Resolution 1152 and 7 Resolution 896. 8 I've also been asked to read 9 testimony from two legislators, one is from Senator 10 Craig M. Johnson. 11 As I said before, and say again, 12 there is no excuse why 40 years after the equal pay 13 act, equal pay is not being paid for equal work in 14 this State. 15 According to a US Department of Labor 16 study issued in September 2007, women earned 81 17 cents for every dollar earned by their male 18 counterparts in 2006. Study after study after study 19 after study, undeniably and unequivocally 20 established this point. More than a dozen other 21 studies clearly prove that a gender and minority pay 22 gap has become a fixture throughout the work force 23 and is so common that many view it as business as 24 usual. 25 This wage gap reflects a sex and 15 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 racial discrimination that pervades our economy. The 3 losses to women, minorities and their families due 4 to this wage gap are large and can be devastating, 5 not only financially but emotionally. It is 6 unacceptable in New York or anywhere else, for pay 7 equity to exist. 8 I am proud to sponsor the Fair Pay 9 Act, S.3966 in the New York State Senate and fully 10 support efforts to pass pay equity in the New York 11 City Council or any other municipal body. 12 Present law clearly has not and does 13 not adequately address the issue of pay equity, and 14 the need for State enforcement for a prohibition of 15 such inequities is right now. 16 Under my Fair Pay Legislation, it 17 will be an unlawful practice for an employer to 18 discriminate between employees on the basis of sex, 19 race and/or national origin by paying employees at a 20 rate less than the rate paid to employees of the 21 opposite sex or a different race or a national 22 origin for work in equivalent jobs. 23 The Act also protects employees by 24 prohibiting an employee from taking adverse action 25 against an employee who seeks to protect his or her 16 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 rights under this law. 3 Critically the Act also requires 4 employers to establish records that document wages 5 paid to employees and that document and support 6 methods, systems and calculations, used to establish 7 and adjust wage rates. 8 This enables persons and the 9 Department of Labor to ensure that employees are 10 paid fairly and equitably. The continuing pay 11 disparity is due cheaply to the lack of salary 12 information that employers are required to keep. 13 This is a good bill, a sound bill, a 14 bill that has a same as in Assembly, sponsored by 15 Assemblywoman Susan John. 16 Unfortunately, my bill is being held 17 hostage by the current Senate majority which gives 18 lip service to pay equity, but refuses to take any 19 real action to rectify that situation. 20 Pay equity is needed across the 21 state. Enacting it in New York City would be a good 22 first step toward this. 23 Pass this bill for the thousands of 24 women, people of color and families whose lives are 25 made more difficult by this institutionalized and 17 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 systematic pay disparity. 3 Pass this bill so they can send a 4 message to Albany that they can do no longer hold 5 back pay equality for all, and pass this bill 6 because it is the right thing to do. 7 Thank you. 8 Sincerely, Craig M. Johnson, State 9 Senator, 7th District. 10 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Thank you very 11 much for reading that into the record. 12 MS. BOLDEN-RIVERA: I will submit the 13 one from Assemblywoman Susan John. 14 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: All right. We have 15 that here. And before we hear from our next Speaker, 16 I want to introduce Letitia James, who is a member 17 of the Committee and is a Councilwoman from 18 Brooklyn. 19 Welcome. Thank you for joining us. 20 You're going next? Okay. 21 Turn the button on so it's read. 22 MS. COOPER NEUFELD: Good morning. I'm 23 Beverly Cooper Neufeld, and I am the Co-Chair of the 24 Government Affairs Committee for the New York 25 Women's Agenda. I am also the former Executive 18 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 Director of the White House Project, which is a 3 national organization that promotes women's 4 leadership in all sectors. 5 Currently I work with organizations, 6 non-profits mostly, on issues pertinent to women and 7 children. 8 Last year NYRA coordinated the first 9 equal pay rally in New York City and it was a great 10 day. 11 Councilwoman Sears, you sponsored 12 that gathering last year, and here we are again this 13 year. 14 Except this year we're not only on 15 the steps of City Hall, we're on inside and we're 16 talking to the City Council about what the City 17 Council can do about what we were talking about 18 outside last year and this year. 19 And I want the City Council to know 20 that the people that you see in this room and the 21 Equal Pay Coalition of New York City is just a small 22 group of an enormous cadre of citizens around this 23 country, coalitions large and small, who care deeply 24 about this issue and are fighting for equal pay. So, 25 it's not just here in New York City. 19 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 There is going to be a lot of data 3 that's shared by other speakers. 4 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: If I could make a 5 suggestion, because we have other panels, but the 6 numbers that you want to talk about I think are very 7 relevant. So, you may want to look at the job 8 titles. 9 MS. COOPER NEUFELD: Okay. 10 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: You may want to 11 look at the difference of what it means for men and 12 for women and then your fact sheet has some very 13 interesting information on it. So, maybe you might 14 want to incorporate some of that into some of the 15 points you were making in your testimony. 16 MS. COOPER NEUFELD: I'll be happy to 17 do that. 18 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: So, if you can 19 condense your testimony and bring in more of that, I 20 think that could be very valuable. 21 MS. COOPER NEUFELD: I will do that. 22 Thank you. 23 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Thank you. 24 MS. COOPER NEUFELD: I think what 25 we're talking about today, it's not just equal pay, 20 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 we're talking about the issue of comparable work. 3 And just a very short story. During the Civil War, 4 right before the Civil War, there were secretaries 5 that were the secretaries to very important men, and 6 those secretaries had to go to war, so of course, 7 they got women to do those jobs. The jobs were done 8 well, and it's the same job, except the women were 9 paid two-thirds of what the men were paid, which is 10 a whopping $1,200 a year in those days. And what's 11 significant about that is that was the very 12 beginning of an example that we can see where gender 13 was the reason that people were paid differently. 14 It was the same job. The only reason 15 that women were being paid less is because of their 16 gender, and that is an example of how you find a 17 title where gender discrimination is very clear. 18 This is the same work, but women are doing it. 19 And that is in contrast to the other 20 kind of pay equity we talk about which is equal pay 21 for equal work, which we all except, except that's 22 only been true since 1963. And the only reason that 23 changed was because we had laws, and that's what 24 we're asking the City Council to support today, is 25 laws that will help our country move forward. 21 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 People ask me, how do we compare 3 jobs, and there are ways to compare jobs and they 4 always say, it's like comparing apples and oranges, 5 and I say, exactly, yes we can. They're both fruits, 6 they both have vitamins, they both have calories and 7 juice content. So, we can compare those things, and 8 we can compare jobs too. We can compare job 9 knowledge, education, accountability. We can compare 10 the human skills needed for the job, management 11 supervision skills and the working conditions. So, 12 jobs can be compared and that's what is being done 13 actually every day in Corporate America, because 14 jobs are evaluated. 15 And, so, the New York State Fair Pay 16 Act would ask the State employers to simply look at 17 jobs that are predominantly one gender or another, 18 and look at those and evaluate are those jobs being 19 paid equal to other jobs of comparable value, in 20 terms of these evaluations. 21 This is being done in Minnesota. It's 22 law in private and public sectors in Maine, and if 23 you just go over the border into Canada, a company 24 can work in New York, it can be international, and 25 in Canada, they have to look at pay equity, but not 22 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 here in New York State. 3 We've already talked about the New 4 York State Fair Pay Act, in terms of some other 5 things, but let me give you an example of the 6 evaluation point system. 7 In Minnesota a registered nurse, when 8 they evaluated her, she got 275 points, and they 9 evaluated a vocational teacher, that added up to 275 10 points as well. The difference is $536 a month that 11 the women did not receive. Multiply that times a 12 year and you see the impact that this can have on 13 people's lives. 14 We were talking about what does 15 $4,000 mean to a woman in New York? When the median 16 income of a woman in New York is $33,000 and the 17 incredible self-sufficiencies study that was done, 18 Mirable Regan's organization does, and they did that 19 in 2004, and that told us that a mom living in New 20 York City with one preschooler, if she lives in 21 Brooklyn, she needs to make $37,000 or $60,000 if 22 she lives in Manhattan. That was in the year 2000. 23 So, when you look at what would 24 $4,000 do to a New York City mom and her preschool 25 child, that's an extraordinary amount of money. And 23 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 most of the women we're talking about actually would 3 be affected by Pay Equity Laws. 4 I think I just also want to give the 5 City Council another really good reason to pass Pay 6 Equity, and that is we were talking before about the 7 fact that there are so many single moms, well I just 8 want to tell you, single women, there are 53 million 9 single women in the United States today. They are 10 the largest growing group. 11 And if you look at that as a voting 12 body, they should have extraordinary voice. And of 13 all of the issues that are important to them, they 14 say pay equity is one of the most important issues. 15 But studies have shown that pay 16 equity is not just important to women. It is also 17 important to men. 18 And this makes pay equity, as we say 19 in our group, it's a family pocketbook issue. So, 20 this would deeply affect the lives of Americans. 21 I just want to close, I do have all 22 these facts and figures, but I do want to close just 23 with a quote that the National Pay Equity Committee 24 wrote, and I think it's really relevant. 25 "This struggle for pay equity is part 24 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 of America's evolving sense of what is fair and 3 just. After all, slavery was once an accepted part 4 of this democratic nation. Union demands were an 5 illegal restraint of trade. Married women had no 6 property rights. Women workers had no rights. Child 7 labor was accepted. Unequal pay for women was 8 accepted. And now we need to deal with this issue of 9 pay equity, and it's time to do something about it. 10 We thank the City Council for 11 considering resolutions and for passing them and 12 making a strong statement to New York State and to 13 the country, that women want pay equity. 14 MS. FIRESTONE: I'm Joan Firestone. 15 I'm Co-Chair of the Government Affairs at New York 16 Women's Agenda, also ex-president of the League of 17 Professional Theater Women. 18 I'd like to thank you all for being 19 here and to thank both the Co-Chairs Sears and 20 Letitia James for their support of this particular 21 resolution. 22 However, one of the things is, we 23 feel, a sense of urgency. 24 We have enormous faith as New York 25 City citizens and the power of the City Council, and 25 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 while campaign bills at the State and federal level 3 languish in Committee, we would like to recommend 4 that the City Council, not only work on the 5 resolutions supporting State and federal 6 legislation, but that you introduce a bill for pay 7 equity. 8 Councilman Barron, you spoke about 9 how long this issue has gone on. It's really time to 10 stop. If it can't happen at the State level, then in 11 fact it really should be introduced as a bill here, 12 and we would urge you to do that. 13 Legislation impacts dramatically on 14 the culture of the marketplace, whether it is or not 15 universally accepted. Absent a consensus within the 16 New York State or federal legislation for passage of 17 the Fair Pay Act, municipalities and states across 18 the country have taken independent action that 19 creates new levels of awareness and demystifies 20 misconceptions. 21 For example, that equal pay 22 legislation will cost employers more. In Minnesota 23 30,000 State employees endured raises at a cost of 24 only 3.7 percent of the State's payroll budget over 25 a four-year period, less than one percent of the 26 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 budget each year. 3 In Washington State, pay equity was 4 achieved at a cost of 2.8 percent of the State 5 personnel costs and was implemented over an 6 eight-year period. 7 Pay equity experts point out that 8 voluntary implementation of pay equity adjustments, 9 is cost effective compared to court ordered 10 adjustments that can lead to exhaustive costs. 11 Another frequent misconception is 12 that the wages of white men will be reduced if pay 13 equity is implemented. Federal law actually 14 prohibits reducing pay for any employees to remedy 15 discrimination. Pay equity is in fact a strategy to 16 force employers to hire and establish wages on the 17 basis of skill, effort, responsibility and working 18 conditions. 19 Often overlooked is the advantage 20 that pay equity represents, as an effective 21 anti-poverty strategy, which has already been 22 mentioned this morning. It helps workers become 23 self-sufficient and reduces their reliance on 24 government assistance programs. 25 A recent study found that nearly 40 27 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 percent of poor working women could leave welfare 3 programs if they were to receive pay equity wage 4 increases. 5 Pay equity can bring great savings to 6 taxpayers at a minimal cost to business, create 7 greater advantages to single parent households, and 8 have a positive influence on the educational outcome 9 of children within those families. 10 The concept of pay equity has far 11 ranging implications beyond established job 12 categories and impacts dramatically on equality of 13 opportunity. 14 Gender inequality in athletics and 15 collegic sports creates a great disparity between 16 male and female athletes, and determines future 17 professional opportunities. 18 Competition is more often gender or 19 ethnic motivated than its excellence in performance. 20 In the field of arts, media and journalism, women 21 are woefully under-represented. 22 Martha Richards, creator of the Fund 23 for Women Artists, reminds us that women are 24 creating some of the most exciting and challenging 25 art in the United States today. 28 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 And, yet, despite great strides in 3 other fields and a few high visibility success 4 stories, women continue to face enormous employment 5 discrimination in the arts and media. 6 The Fund for Women Artists, a 7 national organization, was designed to overcome 8 barriers by raising funds and providing other 9 resources to help women do their art. 10 It has a dual mission of educating 11 the public about the continuing problems of gender 12 bias and pressure institutions to change. 13 Ms. Richards reminds us that not only 14 do women suffer by being shut out, but the culture 15 as a whole is poor when it is deprived of the vision 16 and creativity of women artists. With more talented, 17 trained women entering the field of film, theater, 18 dance and music, and where the number of annual 19 productions and performances increase, there is a 20 decline in the number of women in major positions 21 and salaries below that of their male counterparts. 22 And women fare no better in major communications 23 companies, where they comprise 15 percent of 24 executive positions, and 12 percent of Board 25 membership. 29 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 As we appeal for assistance in 3 gaining passage of legislation, we have identified 4 basic cultural attitudes that demand multiple 5 approaches to effect change. We have profited 6 enormously from the shared experiences of the 7 community of women from different educational, 8 professional, political, ethnic and religious 9 backgrounds, and their ability to articulate 10 meaningful and essential goals. 11 I know there are three hearings going 12 on at the same time. 13 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Wait a 14 second. Can I just say that Council Member Barron 15 was in his element, and he just couldn't wait to 16 talk to the audience, but he has to take a vote and 17 he was just teasing me because he didn't want to be 18 taken away from this Committee and this subject 19 matter. 20 So, Council Member Barron, we 21 appreciate you, and we welcome you back shortly. 22 I was objecting back here that she 23 would hand it over to a man as opposed to the woman 24 and the sponsor of the bill, but anyway. 25 MS. FIRESTONE: Actually, he gave a 30 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 very eloquent presentation to begin the hearing. 3 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Sometimes 4 he can be very eloquent. 5 MS. FIRESTONE: Okay. 6 So, I just wanted to say what a treat 7 it has been that this issue has brought together 8 such an extraordinary group of women, and we have 9 learned a lot. 10 But also, it's given us all the 11 ability to articulate meaningful and essential 12 goals. This collaboration has strengthened our 13 resolve and enhanced our expectations, which we now 14 place in your hands. 15 Thank you. 16 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: I guess 17 that deserves a round of applause. 18 Thank you, ladies. Thank you for all 19 that you do. It's unfortunate that in the State 20 Legislature these four pieces of legislation is 21 being held hostage in the State Senate by 22 octogenarians and septuagenarians in the State 23 Senate. 24 But, hopefully, very soon, very soon 25 there will be a takeover in Albany and these bills 31 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 will be passed. 3 The next panel is Marilyn Gittell; 4 Dina Bakst; and Natatia Griffith. If I mispronounced 5 your name, blame it on my head and not my heart. 6 You may decide amongst you who may 7 begin. 8 MS. GITTELL: I want to apologize for 9 not having a copy of my remarks. I'm pleased that 10 I'm addressing the woman Chair of the Committee. 11 The Howard Samuels Center at the 12 Graduate Center of the City University prepared a 13 report this year called The Economic Status of Women 14 in New York. 15 I was interested that the bill that 16 was passed by, I guess it was the Assembly, called 17 for the Commission to study this problem. This 18 report was done over a year's period of time. It's 19 on the table over there and I apologize for not 20 having a summary of my remarks. It can be obtained 21 on line on our website, the Howard Samuels Center at 22 the Graduate Center at the City University of New 23 York. 24 I'm sorry that I'm going to have to 25 rush through this, because I have an appointment 32 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 which preceded the scheduling of this meeting, but I 3 will just summarize some of the major points of the 4 report for you. 5 The report establishes statistically 6 the continuance of the gender gap, which is between 7 white men and everybody else in the State. Every 8 other women, category of women, we did for the first 9 time disaggregate by race and ethnicity so that we 10 have the breakdown. But the gap between white men 11 and white women is the largest gap in terms of 12 gender. The gap is not as great for black women and 13 it's not as great for Latinas and Latinos, and even 14 less for Asian women and Asian men. 15 But everybody is in a secondary 16 position as related to white men and their salaries, 17 and that is statistically the major aspect of the 18 problem. White men earn so much more than each 19 category of women, and not necessarily because 20 they're better. 21 To give you some reasoning on that, 22 the gap is anywhere from 67 to 78 percent, according 23 to which category you're looking at. 24 By the way, women with professional 25 degrees earn only 67 percent of men's salaries with 33 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 professional degrees. So, education is not the 3 reason why they earn less. That proves that. 4 By the way all of this data is 5 federal data called the PUMS data, and you can look 6 at it yourself, if you like. 7 One of the major reasons for that gap 8 is the segmented nature of the labor market. That 9 is, in the areas where women are predominant, the 10 categories of jobs, the salary is far lower than the 11 areas in which men's jobs appear as the majority. 12 When women even enter the area of 13 men, male-dominated jobs, they earn less than the 14 men in those categories. 15 So, none of the usual excuses for why 16 this differential occurs are really valid 17 statistically. 18 What our findings show, that we 19 divided private sector from public sector, and 20 interestingly enough, in the public sector, the 21 greatest gap is in local government. The federal 22 government has the fairest salary parity, the State 23 has the second fairest. It's the local government 24 where the disparity is greatest, which would suggest 25 that we need some legislation in New York City, 34 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 within the governmental structure, to get parity for 3 workers within that structure. And that's where we 4 have the greatest diversity ethnicity-wise and race 5 wise, and that's where the biggest gap is. 6 In the private sector, it's in the 7 self-employed category where women are earning far 8 less than men who are self-employed. 9 Some other interesting factual 10 conclusions: women in New York City do better in 11 terms of the parity. Their salaries are closer to 12 men's salary in New York City. The gap is widest in 13 the suburbs. That's partially explainable by the 14 fact that women in the suburbs tend to work more 15 part time than they do when they're in New York 16 City. 17 It was interesting, there was a 18 front-page story by Steve Roberts in the Times 19 several months ago, some of you may have read it, 20 where he was extrapolating from that data that the 21 gap was going to close because those women who were 22 New York City who were the youngest group of women 23 and were single were, the gap was smaller. 24 In fact, you cannot extrapolate, 25 because those women who are in that category are 35 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 likely to get married and move to the suburbs. And, 3 so, they will then have the bigger gap. I try to do 4 an op ed piece to answer that by using this data 5 because it's very clear, it's a misuse of the data 6 to think because young women who are single and come 7 to the City, and have a smaller gap but they're a 8 comparable male class are going to in the long run 9 stay in the City and close the gap continuously when 10 we know the other data shows that women in the 11 suburbs and in rural areas have a bigger pay salary 12 gap. 13 And other very shocking, although we 14 know it's been true for a long time, unmarried men 15 do best -- I mean, married men do best in their 16 salaries as compared to women. That is, women who 17 are married earn less in relation to men than women 18 who are unmarried. That's that single group again 19 who are in the City, mind you. 20 Women who have children and are 21 married, earn less than men who are married and have 22 children, which suggests a kind of privilege for 23 married men, obviously, because they're not as 24 occupied as the home care and taking care of the 25 family as women are, which is rather shocking 36 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 because we tend to think of unmarried women, and I 3 think the Chair has said that several times, it's 4 married who suffer more and married women with 5 children suffer the most, in terms of that gap. 6 That was among our most-interesting 7 findings, as well as the fact that categories in 8 that segregated labor market are really important 9 because there are such a lower salary for female 10 dominated professions and jobs. 11 I think if you look at the study 12 itself, it's over there on the table. I don't know 13 if you want to get it? You will see some of the 14 other kinds of conclusions. 15 I thank you. I'm going to have to 16 take off, but if you want to ask me something, I'll 17 -- 18 COUNCIL MEMBER JAMES: Madam Chair, if 19 just before she leaves, I just want to make a couple 20 of comments. 21 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Yes. Absolutely. 22 COUNCIL MEMBER JAMES: One, the 23 feminization of poverty is no accident. 24 MS. GITTELL: Right. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER JAMES: Two, what I 37 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 conclude in my cursory review of this report is that 3 marriage is not as secure as some women would like 4 to believe. 5 MS. GITTELL: Absolutely. 6 COUNCIL MEMBER JAMES: And three, just 7 to let you know that on the local level we are 8 drafting, my office is drafting a piece of 9 legislation to address the inequity on the local 10 government. 11 MS. GITTELL: Good. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER JAMES: I thank you for 13 your testimony. 14 Thank you, Madam Chair. 15 MS. GITTELL: Thank you very much. 16 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Thank you. Your 17 report is really very revealing and very helpful to 18 us. 19 MS. BAKST: Good morning. 20 My name is Dina Bakst, and I am 21 co-president and co-founder of A Better Balance, the 22 Working Family Legal Center. A Better Balance is a 23 New York-based advocacy organization dedicated to 24 help families balance the conflicting demands of 25 work and family. 38 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 I want to start by thanking the 3 Women's Issue Committee for convening this hearing 4 and spurring attention to the persistent wage gap 5 faced by women in the State. Over four decades of 6 equal pay became the law, women are still paid less 7 than men, even those with similar education skills 8 and experience. 9 The wage gap is a multi-faceted 10 problem. Closing the gap requires outlying the 11 discriminatory practice of compensating women and 12 men differently for comparable work. Closing the 13 wage gap also requires addressing other factors that 14 contribute to its persistence, including the 15 under-evaluation of care-giving work, typically 16 provided for women, by women, and the lack of 17 essential public policy supports for men and women 18 to help with their work and family responsibilities. 19 The purpose of my testimony this 20 morning is to focus attention on this key aspect of 21 the gender wage gap. As I said, a large part of the 22 gender wage gap is a motherhood wage gap, as Marilyn 23 Gittell just told us. 24 There is a substantial 7.3 wage 25 penalty for mothers, compared to non-mothers. 39 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 Additional children only make the penalty worse. 3 Mothers can experience penalties of two to ten 4 percent for their first child, and up to four to 16 5 percent for their second child. Fathers don't 6 experience the same penalty. In fact, they can earn 7 up to nine percent more per hour than men without 8 children. 9 Mothers are also subject to blatant 10 discrimination in the job market. They are 44 11 percent less likely than equally qualified 12 non-mothers to be hired, and if hired, are offered 13 11,000 less in starting pay than non-mothers. 14 Families rely on mothers to provide 15 income and care resulting in work family conflict. 16 As we know, mothers have entered the paid workforce 17 in record numbers over the last 30 years and are 18 working longer hours than ever before. 19 Income earned by mothers can amount 20 to over a third of total family income. We also know 21 these women are balancing demands at home. Women 22 bear a disproportionate responsibility for household 23 chores in caring for children and elderly parents. 24 Low-income workers, especially single 25 mothers are especially hard hit by this conflicting 40 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 pressures of work and family as their jobs often 3 lack benefits, vacation, sick leave, and are least 4 likely to provide workplace flexibility. 5 Work life conflict seriously impacts 6 women's earnings. Women continue to bear the brunt 7 of the work family time crunch, which has a clear 8 impact on their earning. 9 Mothers working full-time often 10 experience family responsibilities discrimination, 11 stereotyping and discrimination that cause them 12 wages, promotion and even their jobs. 13 Employers will give fathers better or 14 more work and more pay to support their families. 15 They will often give women less work and less 16 significant assignments, presuming they want more 17 time with their kids. 18 Working mothers who try to manage 19 multiple demands with part-time work suffer 20 penalties as well. Part-time employment pays 21 approximately ten percent less in wages and has been 22 found to be a factor in the wage gap between mothers 23 and non-mothers. And women who leave the workforce 24 for periods of time to care for their children, upon 25 re-entering the workforce suffer huge pay penalties. 41 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 For every two years out of the labor market, a 3 women's earnings falls by 11 percent and this mommy 4 gap persists for the rest of their life. 5 The motherhood wage gap negatively 6 affects women across the economic spectrum. For 7 example, females attorney weekly wages amounted to 8 70.5 percent of male lawyers in 2006, compared to 9 77.5 percent in 2005. This is a seven percent 10 decrease earning in one year. 11 Low-income women, especially single 12 mothers who get stuck in low-wage dead-end jobs are 13 especially hard hit. According to Heidi Hartman of 14 the Institute for Women's Policy Research, if there 15 wasn't a wage gap the poverty rate for single moms 16 would be cut in half, and the poverty rate for 17 dual-earning families would be cut by 25 percent. 18 Ann Crittenden, a former New York 19 Times reporter, who has written extensively on this 20 subject, has labeled the reduction of women's 21 earnings due to women's disproportionate caregiver 22 responsibility as the mommy tax. This tax ranges 23 from $600,000 for middle-income families and a 24 million for the average college-educated woman. 25 Policy solutions that support working 42 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 families can help narrow the pay gap. The work 3 family time crunch is a societal problem that has 4 best been left to individuals to negotiate one 5 family at a time. 6 It's crucial that we make the 7 workplace more hospitable to families, to women and 8 mothers, to close this gap. 9 Workers need paid family medical 10 leave, unpaid FML leave is not an option for all 11 workers, and pay leave significantly increases a 12 women's chance of returning to work after a child is 13 born, improving her earning potential. 14 Workers also need paid sick days to 15 care for themselves and their children. Sixty-five 16 percent of poor New Yorkers and 45 percent of the 17 near poor have no paid sick days. 18 For these women, missing work to care 19 for a sick child can mean the difference between 20 just scraping by and tumbling into poverty. 21 Workplace flexibility can also help 22 women work and care for their families. Solutions 23 such as allowing workers to set hours, determine 24 breaks or have the ability to leave work for a short 25 period of time, can make a huge difference. 43 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 Finally, workers need protection from 3 family responsibilities discrimination. 4 Our City's anti-discrimination laws 5 fail to protect New Yorkers with family 6 responsibilities from job loss and discrimination 7 because of their need to care for loved ones. 8 New York should pass Intro. 565-A, a 9 local law, prohibiting employment discrimination 10 based on an individual's actual or perceived status 11 as caregiver, to protect these workers. 12 New York should be a leader in 13 closing the pay gap and providing an environment 14 where women can flourish. Supporting fair pay 15 legislation would make clear that New York cares 16 about equal pay for women in the State, at the same 17 time, addressing those factors that contribute to 18 unequal pay for women, particularly mothers, by 19 enacting supportive work family policies would be an 20 important compliment and would have a significant 21 impact on the long-term economic security of women 22 in New York State. 23 Thank you. 24 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Allow me to 25 acknowledge some of my colleagues. Council Member 44 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 Sara Gonzalez from the great Borough of Brooklyn, 3 Council Member Rosie Mendez from the great Borough 4 of Manhattan, second to Brooklyn, and then runner up 5 is another progressive young man, Council Member 6 James Sanders from the great Borough of Queens. 7 Thank you. 8 MS. GRIFFITH: Good morning. My name 9 is Natatia Griffith. I am a member of the Board of 10 Directors of the National Coalition of 100 Black 11 Women and the immediate past president of the 12 founding chapter. The New York Coalition of 100 13 Black Women. So, I, too, join my colleagues in 14 thanking the City Council for providing us this 15 opportunity to speak before you on this very 16 important issue. 17 It was in 1970 when a group of women 18 with a vision formally founded the Coalition of 100 19 Black Women, in order to focus on the plight of the 20 black family, integration of black women into the 21 workforce, and to promote political and economic 22 empowerment as they sought to gain acceptance into 23 the civil and women rights movements. 24 Sadly, many of those plights remain 25 as prevalent today as they did back then, and in a 45 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 number of areas have worsened. This realization 3 really can't help but beg the simple question of 4 why, or how come. 5 Now, I know facing the hard truths of 6 these realities head on is easier said than done, 7 for the needs in the black and Latino communities 8 are many and can at times feel like a daunting task. 9 But then one must ask, if not us, who? If not now, 10 when? And whose fault or responsibility is it? 11 Now, compounding this matter is the 12 fact that even if we were to set aside our 13 artificial barriers of class, of ethnicity, of race 14 and of religion to unveil the fact that there are 15 far more things we share in common than we do not, 16 we unfortunately would not find pay equity, because 17 among them, or among our people of color, and in 18 particular African-Americans and Latino women, we 19 earn only 50 to 60 percent respectively as compared 20 with white men who are paid in the higher levels. 21 Again, I ask the question how come? Why? 22 Now, to assess the dynamics of this 23 issue requires facing some hard facts about 24 corporate America, government, policy makers and 25 legislators, because over the years I have learned 46 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 in my leadership roles that being truthful can come 3 at a very high price. But you know what? As 4 difficult as that is, I have also learned that it is 5 a price that we have to be willing to pay, to see 6 the real positive changes in this world, because to 7 do anything less pays tribute to what I consider to 8 be the real enemies of humanity, and in particular, 9 people of color, and more specifically 10 African-Americans and Latinos. 11 Now, I'm certain you know these 12 enemies. I'm certain you know who it is and what it 13 is I'm referring to and the likes of them. 14 They have allowed the New York State 15 Fair Pay Bill to be passed in the Assembly in 2002 16 and 2003, '04, '05, '06, and again in 2007, but 17 never to be voted out of the State of the Senate 18 floor, the Senate Labor Committee, to come to a 19 floor vote. 20 We commute with these enemies, shop 21 with them, work, live, and die with them, and they 22 are called many things, but are more popularly known 23 as denial, silence and apathy. Really seen apart, 24 they exist most everywhere with a devastating 25 effects among races, ethnicities, and genders, and 47 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 most certainly in pay inequity. 3 It is the existence of these very 4 close friends who also go by the nickname of "DSA," 5 that has allowed for significant disparities in the 6 availability and the affordability of housing, 7 health care, child care, and good education. Pay 8 inequity is most certainly a family issue, not just 9 a woman's issue. 10 Now, in a recent study highlighted on 11 CNN.com, it was reported that taxpayers, we, us, 12 basically your employers, pay an estimated $112 13 billion for federal, state and local government 14 programs to subsidize households that are headed 15 primarily by divorced and unwed child-bearing women. 16 Sadly, and unfortunately, primarily led by 17 African-Americans and Latinas. 18 But it made me wonder just how much 19 of this liability would decrease if women's 20 compensations were comparable to that of men 21 performing comparable work. Perhaps it's the 40 22 percent that was mentioned earlier. Perhaps that 23 $600 on a national level is insignificant to what we 24 would have paid if we were in the position to begin 25 with to spend it from our homes. 48 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 Demonstrated integrity is what your 3 constituents need from this Council today, and to 4 that end, we ask that you lead by example, by 5 passing a resolution in support of the New York 6 State Fair Pay Act, or as Joan spoke earlier, 7 introducing a bill that accomplishes the very same 8 thing. 9 With your support and the passage of 10 the New York State Fair Pay Act and the Senate 11 together, we will enable generations to come to reap 12 the benefits of living in the world less limited by 13 race and gender, and where the enemies of humanity 14 are no more. But until then, rest if you must, 15 because we have a whole lot of work to get done. 16 Thank you. 17 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Thank you, 18 Ms. Griffith. 19 Let me just add to your list, the 20 reasons why the bill has not passed in the Assembly 21 -- I mean, the Senate, and that is discrimination 22 and sexism, and because we have a group of men who 23 would like to provide insurance for Viagra and still 24 consider women as chattel property. But again, the 25 day is coming. There is a light at the end of the 49 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 tunnel, and soon we will have a takeover. 3 These are the same men who would like 4 to finance a perverse economic development system 5 where they finance and keep open jails in Upstate 6 where there are no bodies, and unfortunately the 7 jails are filled with people from Downstate, based 8 on the misery index on a significant number of 9 districts in New York City. And, so, let me applaud 10 you for your comments. 11 And to Ms. Bakst? 12 MS. BAKST: Bakst. 13 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: I apologize 14 for mispronouncing your name. As someone who is 15 caring for an 88-year-old mother, we certainly need 16 paid family leave. And as someone who has the 17 discretion of taking off from time to time to care 18 for her needs, I certainly can sympathize with the 19 vast majority of hundreds and thousands of New 20 Yorkers who unfortunately do not have that same 21 luxury. 22 So, thank you, again, for your 23 leadership. 24 MS. BAKST: Thank you. Let me 25 acknowledge Council Member Darlene Mealy from the 50 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 great Borough of Brooklyn. And do my colleagues have 3 any comments? 4 Council Member Gonzalez. 5 Council Member Gonzalez may have a 6 question or two. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER GONZALEZ: Well, I 8 don't have a question. More than anything I just 9 want to say thank you to each and every person 10 that's here, men and women, because this is not just 11 an issue of women, though we are the spear and we're 12 the ones who are pushing this. We are hopeful that 13 we're going to get as much support and advocacy, but 14 I want to thank the advocates more than anything and 15 different groups that are standing really strong 16 because you know what? The reality is that the woman 17 is going to impact an entire family. And we forget 18 that. We forget that it's the person that sometimes 19 has to support the family, it's the person that has 20 to maybe take care of that person in their life and 21 also work, so it's going to impact everyone and it's 22 about fairness, paycheck fairness. 23 So, I am on this resolution and I 24 want to thank the Chair Sears, Council Member Sears 25 for her leadership in this, and let's stay together 51 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 because we stay strong. We need to continue forward, 3 and I have to say that we have a lot of women in the 4 Council and we certainly have decided, and men, 5 Councilman Sanders, who certainly know that we have 6 to make a difference and it's our role to take that 7 leadership. 8 So, thank you today. Thank you. 9 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Thank you. 10 The next panel is Karen Karpowich, 11 Linda Hartley, and Jack Turner (sic), Esquire. 12 I do know that some of my colleagues 13 on Wall Street and in these major law firms, they 14 have, some of them, not all of them, small minority 15 of them have mommy track, so that they can make 16 partners. 17 A significant number of my 18 girlfriends complain to me constantly who work in 19 some of these major law firms, and I sympathize with 20 them because obviously their wage gap does impact 21 one's career. 22 You may decide amongst you who will 23 begin and I will turn it back over to the Chair. 24 MS. KARPOWICH: My name is Karen 25 Karpowich, and I'm First Vice President of New York 52 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 Women's Agenda, and I'm here today to read into 3 testimony, a statement that has been written up by 4 one of our coalition members, a woman named Lois 5 Haignere, who has had more than 20 years of 6 experience consulting on pay equity, comparable 7 worth and equal pay in the United States, Canada and 8 New Zealand, and this is her testimony. 9 As a result of a study done in the 10 mid-1980s, comparable worth adjustments, 11 reclassification of higher salary grade based on 12 gender, race predominance of those titles, were made 13 to 239 New York State job titles in 1987. All of the 14 employees in these job titles, over 47,000 of them, 15 received raises. 16 I recently analyzed the salary gains 17 made by those in traditional female job titles, as a 18 result of those comparable work adjustments. Here I 19 cite a few characteristic examples. 20 The 208 people working in the job of 21 Library Clerk 2, and the 813 people working in the 22 Food Service Worker 2 title, were raised from salary 23 grade seven to salary grade nine, increasing their 24 income to over $2,000 a year. Those who continue to 25 work in those same job titles for an intervening 20 53 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 years, would have lost over $55,000 had these pay 3 equity adjustments not been made. 4 The 45 people working in Library 5 Clerk job title, Library Job 3 job title, were found 6 to have even more salary disparity, and were raised 7 from salary grade level 11 to 14 for an annual 8 income increase of over 4,000, and a 20-year 9 estimated earnings increase of over 109,000. The 10 Food Service Worker 3 title was raised from a grade 11 nine to a grade 13 for an annual increase of over 12 5,000, and an estimated 20-year increase of 135,000 13 dollars. 14 Three 1987 clerical job titles, File 15 Clerk, Typist and Clerks, were raised from salary 16 grade 3 to 6, increasing the salaries of over 6,000 17 State employees by more than $2,400 a year, for a 18 20-year estimated income gain of more than $64,000. 19 These pay equity adjustments made it possible for 20 someone to buy their own home, or put a child 21 through college. 22 Those who have been working on job 23 titles traditionally done by women and people of 24 collar, approximately 20 percent of whom are men, 25 who have received no comparable worth adjustment 20 54 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 years ago, have been and are being cheated daily out 3 of both money and related feelings of value and 4 self-esteem. 5 I am proud to have been part of what 6 was done 20 years ago, but I know now that we made a 7 big mistake in not passing pay equity, comparable 8 legislation, as had been done in other states and 9 countries. When there are no legal protections, 10 prejudice, greed will prevail, as surely as our 11 bridges and infrastructure will deteriorate and 12 collapse without maintenance. 13 Thank you. 14 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Thank you. 15 We've just been joined by a class. 16 What school is this? 17 (Speaking from the audience. 18 Inaudible.) 19 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Okay, I 20 just wanted to welcome them to the City Hall, to 21 City Council, the people's, people's government. 22 We are doing a hearing, ladies and 23 gentlemen, on treating men and women the same when 24 it comes to their pay. Pay equity, as the term is 25 referred to. 55 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 And I hope after you hear some of the 3 testimony, that you will go back to your classroom 4 and have a debate on it. Okay? Fair enough? Very 5 good. Please be quiet, and enjoy the testimony. 6 Thank you. It's PS 105, Bronx, New 7 York, and the principal, or I believe they've been 8 accompanied by Mr. Lenny Weintraub. 9 Is that true? 10 Thank you. And welcome to City 11 Council. 12 MS. HARTLEY: Hello. I'm Linda 13 Hartley. I'm Vice President for Quality of Life for 14 New York Women's Agenda. I'm former President of 15 Women In Development New York, it's a group of about 16 700 female fundraisers. And New York Women's Agenda 17 represents many women's organizations in New York 18 City. 19 I'm also a former board member of 20 NYRAL (phonetic) New York, and President of Hartley 21 Consulting, a fundraising consulting firm for 22 non-profits. 23 I'm reading a statement from Ellen 24 Bravo today. She is an author of Taking on the Big 25 Boys: Why Feminism is Good for Women, Families and 56 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 Business, and she's also Professor of Women's 3 Studies at the University of Milwaukee, University 4 of Wisconsin in Milwaukee. 5 She says: I applaud all those in New 6 York City who are rallying in support of pay equity. 7 I'd like to help clarify the real reasons women make 8 so much less money than men and what we need to do 9 about it. According to the media, the problem is 10 mainly women's fault, we just don't ask. 11 If we learn to speak up in salary 12 negotiations, pay equity would be a hard, cold fact. 13 An NBC news segment called "The Negotiation 14 Process," something that each of us has the ability 15 to control. Women must take responsibility for 16 themselves. No employer has the obligation to 17 whisper in a women's ear, hey, you know, you just 18 lost out on more money because you didn't speak up. 19 This observation leaves out one 20 important reality, the majority of women work in 21 jobs where they have no right whatsoever to 22 negotiate for pay. What's more, many are like Donna, 23 a software developer, whose employment agreement 24 lists discussing salary with colleagues among the 25 number of fireable offenses. Hard to know you're 57 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 making less than others, if you're not allowed to 3 know what the others are earning. 4 Yes, women need to learn the art of 5 negotiation, and the facts about labor law which 6 already prohibits salary secrecy, according to the 7 National Labor Relations Board. But blaming the wage 8 gap on women's lack of assertiveness is like blaming 9 sexual harassment on a women's lack of snappy 10 come-backs. 11 The real program isn't that women 12 don't ask for more, it's that employers pay women so 13 much less than they deserve. 14 Why do employers pay women so little 15 money? Because they can. Often because they think 16 they have to in order to compete. 17 A key problem is that society 18 undervalues the work women do. Many jobs are now 19 female dominated, including fundraisers, and many 20 people in the non-profit sector, about 70 percent in 21 our profession. 22 Female dominated work, such as 23 clerical work, once excluded females when men were 24 in short supply during a Civil War women were hired 25 into these positions at one-half to two thirds of 58 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 the wages of women. 3 We've heard this before. Women 4 performed well and employers hired more of them and 5 that discriminatory wage set by the government 6 became the market rate. 7 Similarly, the lack of regard for 8 women's work as caregivers in the home, and we've 9 heard this, too, set low values for that same work 10 in the marketplace. That's why those who care for 11 our young children earn less than those who care for 12 our cars, our pets, and our lawns. 13 Lack of collective bargaining rights 14 also undermine women's wages. 15 The big boys, those who control 16 wealth and power in this country, like to say that 17 pay corresponds to risk. Yet the Washington Post 18 found that one of the poorest paid occupations, 19 nurse's aid, faces a serious risk of injury, higher 20 than that of a coal miner or a steelworker. Some of 21 the lowest pay wage jobs often performed by 22 non-white immigrant workers of both genders are 23 those with grueling physical labor, and the highest 24 exposure to dangerous substances. 25 Power, not risk, determines pay 59 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 rates. 3 Also high on the risk of reasons for 4 women's low pay is the motherhood penalty. 5 Studies agree that women with 6 children are paid less across the board than women 7 without kids of men of any family situation. The 8 research varies only on how great that penalty is. 9 It's true that in professional jobs 10 women are less likely than men to initiate salary 11 negotiations. But more important they're less likely 12 to get leads, training, mentoring, opportunities, 13 promotions and other rewards that lead to higher 14 pay. 15 Women's pay is also hurt by the way 16 inflation keeps pushing down the value of the 17 minimum wage, since women are disproportionately 18 clustered in minimum wage jobs and by the lack of 19 laws requiring equal treatment for part-time and 20 temporary workers, another area dominated by women. 21 I didn't know that before. 22 The wage gap between men and women 23 has stuck at 77 cents on the dollar. Seventy-two 24 cents for African-American women and 60 cents for 25 Latinas, which means at the rate of progress from 77 60 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 cents to 100 percent equity, you will all be over 50 3 before we reach equity, if we go at the same rate. 4 The big boys like to remind women 5 that the gap has narrowed. What they forget to 6 mention is that half the narrowing comes from a loss 7 of pay for men, especially men of color. 8 Not what we had in mind for equality. 9 The gap is greatest for women with the most 10 education and the longest hours, and the mommy wage 11 gap, the difference between pay with women with kids 12 and everyone else has in fact increased. We need to 13 change the way pay is determined. Not according to 14 what you earned on your last job, or how slick you 15 are in promoting yourself, but rather an objective 16 transparent criteria, including performance 17 criteria. 18 Do you have significantly more 19 experience and skill than other jobs in your cohort? 20 Then you should have a higher job category and earn 21 more money. Your dad plays golf with the CEO, you 22 shouldn't get a fatter pay envelope for that. 23 A number of pay public policies will 24 also help. Starting with a Fair Pay Restoration Act. 25 This bill would reverse the Supreme Court ruling on 61 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 lead better versus good year that discrimination 3 claims must be made within 180 days after the pay is 4 set, rather than any time a person is paid at a 5 discriminatory rate. That's like having a freshness 6 date for discrimination. 7 That's just a start. There are 8 several other bills pending in Congress that need 9 passing. The Fair Pay Act, as we've been talking 10 about, would require employers to use objective job 11 evaluations and remove gender and race as criteria 12 in compensation. 13 To end salary secrecy and 14 strengthening enforcement of the existing pay equal 15 pay measures we need the Paycheck Fairness Act, and 16 the Employee Free Choice Act, which would ease the 17 negotiating that matters most, collective 18 bargaining, by removing barriers to union 19 representation. 20 To end the Motherhood penalty, we 21 need to ensure that family responsibility is added 22 to the list of categories protected under 23 anti-discrimination law. That's been mentioned, too. 24 And we need to raise the wage floor and guarantee 25 equity, for those in non-standard jobs. 62 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 Women do need to learn about 3 negotiation. It looks like wage, women are getting 4 even. Women in development do this too, they offer 5 terrific workshops and information on the web about 6 how to do this. 7 But above all, learn the necessity of 8 organizing. The best way to get what you need for 9 yourself is to work with others on behalf of 10 everyone for changes in the workplace and public 11 policy. 12 Thank you very much, and I'm very 13 happy to see Council Member Sears. Thank you again 14 for what you're doing, the last two years on this 15 issue, and Council Member James Sanders and Council 16 Member Letitia James, for introducing new 17 legislation. 18 I'm so delighted to hear that, and 19 I'm hoping that you'll help us in Queens, because 20 there are two State Senators on the Labor Committee 21 that represent Queens. Thank you very much. 22 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Thank you. 23 Do you have a copy of your testimony? 24 MS. HARTLEY: Yes, I do. 25 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: And where 63 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 can I copy a purchase of that book? Or of that 3 report? 4 MS. HARTLEY: Ellen Bravo? 5 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Yes. 6 MS. HARTLEY: Book? 7 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Yes. 8 MS. HARTLEY: CUNY Feminist Press. 9 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: CUNY 10 Feminist Press? 11 MS. HARTLEY: Yes. And we'll send you 12 a copy. 13 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Well, I 14 have to pay for it. These -- 15 MS. HARTLEY: Oh, yes. 16 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Yes, right. 17 Please. 18 Council Member Sanders. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER SANDERS: I don't have 20 a question. 21 MR. TUCKNER: Good morning. 22 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: Good 23 morning. 24 MR. TUCKNER: My name is Jack Tuckner. 25 I am a founding member of the law firm called 64 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 Tuckner, Sipser, Weinstock & Sipser, and our sole 3 mission statement and purpose is to champion the 4 rights of working women in New York City and its 5 environs. 6 Each day, and I represent exclusively 7 women all in gender-based workplace issues for the 8 last decade. Most of you are probably unaware of who 9 we are, and interesting enough, we're the only 10 private law firm, as boutique and tiny as we are in 11 the nation, that concentrates its practice in this 12 area. 13 Why is that? How did it come to be 14 that a middle-aged white male is the only one that 15 in looking for how value can be added as an attorney 16 in this culture, that we chose to pick as our area 17 of focus women? 18 Well, one of the reasons sort of can 19 be seen by the press turnout here today. And sort of 20 just given the lack of power and juice as the kids 21 say that we have, as a group, as a franchise, but 22 why is that? 23 So, each day we dodge bullets in the 24 federal and State courts, in the administrative 25 agencies and negotiating with our Corporate America, 65 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 in attempting to empower working women. But what I 3 just always fail to understand is that I can't be 4 the only male who has women in his life, who he 5 likes. We'd like to see be successful. I have an 6 18-year-old daughter who works at Applebee's. When 7 she goes into the kitchen as a waitress, they call 8 her everything but her given name. 9 Now, she doesn't want my assistance 10 because she's been hearing me for 18 years, but the 11 fact is, why is it still that we have to deal with 12 -- why is it accepted and why is it still today, 13 still understood that we're going to be as women, 14 I'm going to have to identify as I often do, we're 15 going to be objectified in the workplace because of 16 our gender. 17 I believe that women have it tougher 18 than men. Always have. As former presidential 19 candidate Shirley Chism famously said, "Of my two 20 handicaps, being female put more obstacles in my 21 path than being black." So, this is the special 22 interest group, woman. 23 Pregnancy discrimination cases are on 24 the rise. It's our number one cause of action in our 25 office. Sexual harassment and sexual abuse cases are 66 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 certainly holding their own. The glass ceiling from 3 our perspective has been replaced with steel 4 strength polymer, because very difficult to break 5 through a number of levels, and I don't have the 6 statistics with me, but it's certainly still 7 evident. 8 The mommy track is running all 9 off-peak, local trains to the workplace pink ghetto 10 where women mostly toil. Women have it tougher than 11 men. 12 One of the reasons why I believe 13 we're here is last year Ledbetter versus Good Year 14 Tire Company, was a Supreme Court case where our 15 mean-spirited majority United States Supreme Court 16 scoffed at the concept of equal pay for equal work, 17 when it showed the door to a woman named, to Ms. 18 Ledbetter, Lilly Ledbetter, because she had the 19 audacity, the sheer unseemly discourtesy, to stand 20 up and speak up for her right to be equal in the 21 workplace. 22 It had absolutely nothing to do with 23 missing the Statute of Limitation period, which 24 occurred 16 years before, when she couldn't possibly 25 have known of the discrimination to which she 67 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 ultimately complained. 3 And the result actually encourages 4 litigation, as every women who senses that she may 5 be paid less than men performing equal work, must 6 dash off to file a precipitous complaint, just in 7 case her hunch proves true. 8 The magnitude of our mitigated 9 cynicism, and frankly, misogynistic leanings -- 10 ACTING CHAIRPERSON JAMES: You go. 11 MR. TUCKNER: -- That would compel the 12 kind of harmful, tortured logic that is apparent in 13 this decision from the highest court in the land is 14 actually impressive, and it's really hard to 15 comprehend in the absence of malice and avarice. 16 We have a reactionary political 17 environment which is hostile to all progressive 18 notions of fairness, equality, equal access to 19 justice and power, which is really what undergirds 20 all of this. This is all about power and the lack of 21 it, who wields it, who doesn't, and abusive of 22 power. 23 Our most esteemed judicial tribunal, 24 again, the Supreme Court is openly contemptuous of 25 an individual citizen's right to speak truth to 68 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 power, to question authority, to hold corporaticians 3 accountable for their excesses, if not their crimes. 4 As a nation we have morphed from, I 5 don't think this is news to anyone, from a democracy 6 into a corporatocracy, as BBBs, as I call them, Big 7 Business Behemoths, aided and abetted by our 8 corporate media, have redistributed wealth and 9 power, upward, toward itself and away from us. 10 We're all commodities and we're all 11 for sale, even if we're forced to listen to 12 advertisements on prime time network television for 13 Girls Gone Wild videos that I watch with my two 14 teenage daughters, where we're really selling -- 15 what are we selling? Fodder for onanism. I mean, it 16 sort of boggles the mind when you sort of see how we 17 objectify women culturally. 18 And speaking of Viagra, you know, 19 back in the flap over Janet Jackson's nanosecond of 20 revealed breast on the Super Bowl, during the Super 21 Bowl, you know, caused such a scandal, yet during 22 that same Super Bowl, there were Viagra ads by big 23 pharmacy featuring man staring leeringly at a woman 24 in lingerie in a television ad, again that one is 25 forced to watch with one's loved ones, some of whom 69 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 perhaps are female. 3 People of color, the GLBT community 4 and people with disabilities and people in prison 5 for using drugs, unapproved by the pharmaceutical 6 medical complex, all have less value. 7 And, of course, women. Women have 8 less value than men. Women have lower human capital 9 than men. It's one of the academic notions and 10 studies of why women are paid less, the human 11 capital theory that obviously we don't have time to 12 talk about today, but very simply as a commodity, 13 for instance, most great chefs commercially are men, 14 almost all of them, but the act of cooking is 15 relegated generally to the domestic sphere. 16 Women consistently -- so, excuse me. 17 When we're talking about women, we're not talking 18 about some marginalized group. You know, I think 19 someone said before, and maybe it was the 20 Assemblyman who indicated that countries are 21 considered to be judged by how they treat its women. 22 I've always heard that variously, as countries can 23 be judged by how they treat its least empowered 24 folks or its animals, its prisoners, but why is it 25 here again we're talking about girls? We don't like 70 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 them very much apparently as a culture. 3 I mean, our mothers, our daughters, 4 our sisters, our wives, our girlfriends, ourselves - 5 women consistently suffer degraded terms and 6 conditions of employment based on their gender alone 7 and women regularly experience corporate retaliation 8 when they finally have that Rosa Parks's moment, 9 which we encourage them to do, they finally draw a 10 line in the sand and say, no, no, this shall not 11 stand, and they do what they need to do under the 12 laws, to actually notify the employer of their 13 enforced limitations or how they are being in some 14 way degraded, and they refuse to accept a fate 15 chosen for them by others. 16 But it often results in far more 17 backlash from our corporate masters. So, what can we 18 do about it? Well, we can and must insist on legally 19 required equal treatment. We can insist that we not 20 be objectified at work. What I tell my daughters, I 21 mean we're going to start at one person, I tell this 22 to my clients, we can insist on not being 23 objectified, we can insist that our leaders must 24 care more about profit and loss statements, more 25 then about profit and loss statements, and we can 71 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 insist that they appoint judges who actually heed 3 the rule of law with a view toward determining truth 4 and fairness; can you imagine? 5 Judges who would care that the 6 legislative intent of the Equal Pay Act, that's why 7 we're here, the Equal Pay Act in Title 7 was to 8 serve the fundamental purpose of what eliminating 9 pay discrimination, as opposed to straining, as this 10 court did in the Ledbetter case, for reasons to 11 deny, redress; why? Because it would actually 12 require the administration of justice that would 13 have served a working woman. 14 We must bring a certain, and this of 15 course is my thought on this, that we must bring a 16 certain male energy. We have to bring, in the quest 17 for remediation, I think that we need to be 18 assertive if not downright aggressive. 19 Some of that successful machismo 20 (phonetic), some of that sort of alpha male 21 imperative that rules the world needs to be brought 22 to the fight. Because we're all going quietly to our 23 rest. 24 To paraphrase Pulitzer winner Laura 25 Thatcher Ulrich, "well-behaved women, and the men 72 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 who admire them, rarely make history." 3 In our ongoing struggle for true 4 economic parity between men and women, the laws are 5 our weapons and the courts are our battlefields. So, 6 if we don't have the weaponry of our laws, we lose 7 all the battles on the war by default. We never even 8 get to leave the house, sort of a pun on the fact 9 that nothing ever gets out of our houses of Congress 10 and gets anywhere that actually helps us. 11 We surrender to the vagaries and 12 whimsy of those who would rule us. The two federal 13 laws offering protection on the basis of sex, it's 14 the Equal Pay Act of 1963 and the Civil Rights Act 15 of 1964, as amended in 1991, are famously 16 complicated statutes, requiring different standards, 17 different tests, shifting burdens, different jury 18 charges. 19 These laws confound even Federal 20 Court judges, let alone the average would-be 21 plaintiff or juror. 22 In the Ledbetter Decision, the 23 Supreme Court -- 24 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Excuse me. Can I 25 just ask you to sum up, because we have another 73 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 panel waiting. 3 MR. TUCKNER: Sure. 4 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: And your comments 5 are very important. 6 MR. TUCKNER: The decision that is the 7 result of the final disempowerment, presumably 8 provoking our presence here today, the Supreme Court 9 has effectively eviscerated the law in its entirety, 10 and it ruled that this Equal Pay Act is only 11 available for women fleet of foot enough to race to 12 the court house door within 180 days of the first 13 violation of the law. 14 I don't know if you want me to sum 15 up, you want me to sort of stop and just sort of say 16 thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: I think if you can 18 conclude -- 19 MR. TUCKNER: Well, thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: I think you 21 covered so much on the second page, even though I 22 came in on the tail end of your testimony. 23 I know we have a couple of questions 24 from our colleagues. 25 MR. TUCKNER: Well, I'll sum up with 74 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 this -- 3 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Yes. 4 MR. TUCKNER: This body, this body 5 right here is responsible for the best law we all 6 have, but no one really talks about. It's the City 7 Human Rights Law. Enuca Brown Sanders taught Madison 8 Square Garden and New York Knicks a lesson to the 9 tune of 11 and a half million dollars because of the 10 New York City law, which is liberally construed, 11 much more progressive than any other, the State law 12 is, you know, a travesty by comparison, and the 13 federal law forget about it. 14 The City law, which the recent 15 enactment of the domestic violence protection, which 16 is comprehensive, the best in the nation, this 17 Council could certainly amend this statute to 18 include equal pay protection and protection for 19 caregivers and family responsibility, et cetera, it 20 would certainly help a lot of women in the five 21 boroughs of New York. 22 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Bingo. Thank you 23 very much. I think that's an excellent suggestion. I 24 think I agree with you. I think this Council in this 25 term has put forth and passed more progressive 75 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 legislation than has before, and I would agree with 3 that. We have opened the doors to domestic violence, 4 we've opened the doors to human trafficking, and we 5 have opened the doors enormously, the Women's 6 Committee and the Council has passed this 7 legislation, and we have also done some 8 extraordinary initiatives on the issues that we're 9 talking about. So, we appreciate those comments. 10 I do think, I think we have a 11 question from Councilman Sanders for the panel. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER SANDERS: Not so much a 13 question, Madam Chair. More a reflection, if you 14 wish. I want to start by, of course, commending you 15 and this Committee for continuing this fight and for 16 ensuring that it gets more of a voice than perhaps 17 there are those who want to hear. 18 Just a few reflections, these things 19 said so much better by the panelists, and the 20 previous panelists, but, you know, sometimes we say 21 them again, called the revival if you do that in 22 church. And that's simply that working class and 23 middle class families, have nothing to fear from pay 24 equality. It would be one of the wisest things that 25 we could do to move the status of these families 76 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 forward. 3 Clearer still, working class and 4 middle class black and Latino men certainly should 5 not fear pay equality. It certainly would be a step 6 in cutting down on the theft and plunder of our 7 wages, and we certainly shouldn't fear it, in fact 8 we should be championing it if the truth is told. 9 The issue, as has been clearly stated 10 and clearly framed, is a question of power and 11 wealth. Those who have it are going to use every 12 justification that they can, every mind game that 13 they can play to keep it, and if we are foolish 14 enough to buy into that madness, then we will cry 15 every time we go to the store and try to purchase 16 something, and find problems. 17 As a father of a daughter, whose 18 reached an age that she doesn't want me to tell her 19 age anymore, I have taught her to raise Hades at 20 every step of the way. Don't wait for 180 days, 21 raise it from day one, maybe day two, get in the job 22 first, but, you know, it's just better. 23 I understand that women hold a path 24 to sky, they do, and if the sky hasn't fallen it's 25 probably because of the women. I'll go a step 77 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 further and just say again, as the last speaker was 3 alluding to, that men have to really participate in 4 this fight more, that we have to raise this fight 5 publicly and privately in the quiet conversations 6 that we have with other men. And in the public ways 7 that we need to do, if we are ever to reach the 8 beloved community that we say that we're struggling 9 for, then you can't get there by yourself. This time 10 we're going to have to take everybody who wants to 11 get there. Just my soul responding, Madam Chair. 12 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: It's a good 13 response, and I thank you, a very supportive one. 14 Councilwoman James has a comment. I 15 just want to thank the Councilwoman for chairing. I 16 said earlier, talk about Jack Be Nimble and Jack Be 17 Quick, I had three different committees and I voted 18 three different times. Not all at the same time. So, 19 thank you for your patience. I'm sorry I had to skip 20 back and forth and across the street. 21 So, I want to thank you. You have 22 been very helpful, and this has really been a good 23 hearing. 24 MS. HARTLEY: Thank you. 25 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Thank you, again. 78 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 We're going to call up the next 3 panel, which is Carolyn Sevos, she is the National 4 Association of Women Business Owners; Ann Jawin, the 5 Center for the Women of New York, and Sheila 6 Lambert, Bottomless Closet. And we have one more, 7 which I think we can ask to join if you will put 8 another seat at the table, we have four there. And 9 Dr. Jacque DeGraff. 10 Is Jacque DeGraff here? 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Not yet. 12 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Not yet? 13 Okay, we don't need the fourth chair 14 then at this moment. 15 Hi. Thank you very much. Introduce 16 yourselves. You may go in any order you see fit. 17 MS. JAWIN: Hi. My name is Ann Jawin. 18 I'm wearing two hats today. I am the Founder and 19 Chair of the Board of Directors of the Center for 20 the Women of New York, and a longstanding member of 21 the Board of the New York Women's Agenda. 22 So much has been said, and we're all 23 kind of experts who have come through, either 24 studying or experiencing firsthand a lot of the 25 things that have been talked about, and I don't 79 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 really want to repeat all of that. I did send in my 3 testimony. 4 So, I thought I would just tell you 5 about two things that are repetitious, but, you 6 know, when you've experienced it, it stays in your 7 mind. 8 And I've had a career in human 9 resources and career guidance and because of that 10 I've done a lot of work with women and salaries and 11 jobs and those of us in the field have kind of a 12 Bible, it's called from the Bureau of Labor 13 Statistics, it's the US Dictionary of Occupational 14 Titles. So, this is a government publication and 15 they've taken many, many jobs and stripped them into 16 experience, education, what it requires physically, 17 mentally, risk, a lot of a lot of issues, and it's 18 supposed to be objective. 19 But as we've learned, and I've 20 learned in my early experience with national 21 organization for women. That the people who do the 22 judging, bring their own baggage and their own point 23 of view, and a lot of the studies and the tests and 24 the policies were skewed. 25 And so I came across the title for 80 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 child care. Now, this caring for children is a noble 3 profession, as everyone in our country will agree, 4 what can you do that's more important as a child 5 care attendant, and I noticed that it had the same 6 rating as a parking lot attendant. It was really 7 shocking. That's the way they valued it. And in my 8 own experience, unfortunately with illness in my 9 family, the home care attendant who comes into your 10 home and takes care of the patient and really can 11 have life and death responsibility, as to the 12 medicines, the sterilization, the care. Many of 13 those home made attendants that are supplied by 14 Medicare or Medicaid make $6.75 or so an hour. It's 15 shocking. 16 How we get as many of them to do the 17 job they do as well as they do is probably because 18 they're desperate. They can't make any other jobs. 19 And, so, if you're affluent, you can 20 go to private agencies, and you can, you know, shop 21 and get people who will not have to work for that 22 money, and can afford to bargain better for 23 themselves and negotiate. 24 But if you're not, and you don't know 25 the language, or it's just the working knowledge of 81 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 the language and you have nothing to do and you have 3 responsibilities, you take what you can get. 4 And, so, I just want to emphasize 5 that it's the longstanding attitudes of sex 6 discrimination and the value of women's work that we 7 have to strip away and get down to real studies of 8 comparable worth in an objective way. 9 And I am very encouraged that this 10 Committee, my longstanding friend and colleague, 11 Helen Sears, and others that I do not know but have 12 gotten to meet today, really care about this issue, 13 and those of us in the ranks will be here to support 14 you. Thank you very much. 15 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Thank you very 16 much, Ann. 17 MS. LAMBERT: Let me first start by 18 introducing myself. My name is Sheila Lambert, and I 19 am a founder and the current Board Chair of 20 Bottomless Closet. 21 Bottomless Closet is an organization 22 whose mission it is to promote economic self 23 sufficiency by providing interview skills, business 24 clothing and ongoing career development and support 25 programs to economically disadvantaged New York City 82 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 women. 3 We are very pleased to be here today, 4 to testify in support of Resolution No. 896-A and 5 Resolution No. 1152. Since our founding in 1999, 6 Bottomless Closet has assisted more than 10,000 7 women as they seek to find and retain employment and 8 overcome the challenges of poverty. 9 Each year we provide support to more 10 than 1,200 women from the five boroughs of New York. 11 Bottomless Closet provides personalized resume 12 counseling and interview coaching, as well as a wide 13 range of career and personal development training 14 opportunities to strengthen each woman's ability to 15 find employment, succeed on the job and positively 16 change her life. 17 By offering support programs to women 18 who are both seeking employment and who have become 19 part of the workforce, Bottomless Closet represents 20 a vital network and resource for women at work. And 21 in this economic environment, our programming and 22 support become even more essential to our clients. 23 Statistically, almost 90 percent of 24 the women with whom we work are persons of color. 25 Eighty percent have high school of equivalency 83 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 diplomas or some college, 77 percent are single, and 3 65 percent have children. And although we don't have 4 a statistic on single mothers, we can only conclude 5 that a large percentage of our clients are single 6 parents. 7 They are young and more mature, 8 married and single, single mothers with 9 responsibilities for their families, second and even 10 third generation welfare recipients. Many of them 11 have been incarcerated or part of drug 12 rehabilitation programs. Others have come to us from 13 shelters because they have lost their homes or are 14 victims of domestic violence. We work with these 15 women every day, to help them with the challenges of 16 poverty and to help them make better lives for 17 themselves and their families. 18 However, despite their very real 19 success in entering the workforce, there remain 20 issues and barriers that make it difficult for many 21 of them to leave poverty behind and to lead 22 successful lives. 23 Today there are almost 37 million 24 people living in poverty in the United States, more 25 than 12 percent of our population. 84 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 According to the community service 3 society of New York, more than one in five people in 4 New York City, approximately 1.8 million are living 5 below the poverty line, and another 1.6 million 6 hover just above it. 7 In New York City the poverty line is 8 defined as approximately 30,000 for a family of 9 three. Poverty rates for persons of color are more 10 than twice that of whites. Nearly one-third of New 11 York City children live in poverty and that number 12 increases to 54 percent for families with single 13 mothers. 14 And while New York City's 15 unemployment rate fell to 4.6 percent in 2006, and 16 the job market has been expanding since 2003, in 17 fact, the wages of the City's poorest, many of whom 18 are our clients, have declined 3.3 percent in 2006, 19 and 14.3 percent since the end of the 1990s. 20 So, in fact, our clients are often in 21 a worse position than ever. And while we do not have 22 specific statistical information regarding pay 23 inequity between our clients and their male 24 counterparts, we can say the following: 25 - a large number of our clients are 85 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 minimum wage, which puts their earning capacity far 3 below the poverty line in New York City. Their 4 struggle is exacerbated by the fact that they often 5 lack child care, health care and adequate housing. 6 According to the National Committee 7 on Pay Equity and the Cornell University Institute 8 for Women and Work, women earn 77 percent of men's 9 earnings, and African-American and Latino women earn 10 71 percent and 56 percent respectively. 11 Since all of our clients are women 12 and 90 percent are either African American or 13 Latina, we can extrapolate that our clients also 14 consistently earn less than their male counterparts. 15 We agree with the position of the 16 National Organization for Women, that if women 17 earned wages comparable to men, their annual income 18 would increase and poverty rates would decline. In 19 particular, we believe that our clients who are 20 attempting so valiantly to lift themselves out of 21 poverty would benefit greatly from the passage of 22 such legislation, and we wholeheartedly endorse the 23 passage of both resolutions, and I might also add 24 that I'm thrilled to hear that the New York City 25 Council is taking the lead in introducing pay equity 86 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 legislation for New York City women, for those are 3 the women who we work with every day. 4 Thank you very much. 5 MS. SEVOS: Hello. My name is Carolyn 6 Sevos. Thank you for allowing me to testify today at 7 this hearing, and for NYWA for organizing this very 8 important hearing. 9 I am the President of 10 Intercommunities, Inc., a women-owned technology 11 firm. I'm on the NYWA Government Affairs Committee, 12 and I'm also the Public Policy VP for the National 13 Association of Women Business Owners, the New York 14 City Chapter. 15 I will speak very briefly about pay 16 equity in the federal arena, because we felt that 17 this was important to have as an overview in the 18 testimony here today. 19 Originally we had two laws to protect 20 wage discrimination. The Equal Pay Act of 1963, and 21 Title 7 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. 22 Unfortunately, these laws are very difficult to 23 enforce and very hard to prove in court and to win 24 in court. So, a number of federal legislations were 25 proposed, trying to address some of those issues. 87 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 The Fair Pay Act of April 11th, 2007, 3 sought to address the issue of female, of those who 4 work in female or minority-oriented jobs, by 5 establishing equal pay for equivalent work. And then 6 Hillary introduced the Paycheck Fairness Act in 7 March 2007, which essentially seeks to tighten up 8 the Equal Pay Act of 1963, its language, and also 9 calls for voluntary pay equity guidelines for 10 employers to follow. 11 Then the presses stopped on May 29th, 12 2007 in the Lilly Ledbetter versus Goodyear Tire and 13 Rubber Company when the Supreme Court made its 14 infamous five to four ruling that Lilly Ledbetter 15 could not sue for pay discrimination, not because 16 she hadn't been discriminated against, as had been 17 found in lower courts, but she had exceeded the 18 180-day Statute of Limitations placed on 19 discrimination claims. 20 So, as a result of that, the house 21 swiftly passed the Lilly Ledbetter pay act fair pay 22 act to try and undo what the Supreme Court decision 23 had done to these legislations. 24 And currently on the plate is the 25 Fair Pay Restoration Act in the Senate which is 88 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 currently going through hearings, so that's kind of 3 what's going on on the federal front. 4 So, I'd like to just briefly say that 5 it would be great for New York to move forward on 6 this issue and sort of set the tone for where we 7 should be going federally. 8 So, I urge that the New York State 9 Fair Pay Act is passed, and that the New York City 10 Council passes the resolution in support of Fair Pay 11 Resolution proposed by Councilwoman Helen Sears. 12 Thank you very much. 13 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Thank you. 14 Are there any questions? 15 COUNCIL MEMBER MEALY: Yes. 16 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Okay, Councilwoman 17 Mealy. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER MEALY: Yes, I want to 19 commend everyone here today because this is an issue 20 that we have to -- I listened to Mr. Tuckner, he's 21 the only legal advice that we have out here, and 22 he's only doing all women's issues. So, we need 23 other people to stand up just as well, and you 24 wouldn't believe, I just encountered something just 25 recently where at a site they did not have one woman 89 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 on a construction site, and what they said was that 3 they didn't want the woman to be torn apart because 4 of the men. I said how can you discriminate? I said, 5 do you know how long ago we have passed legislation 6 that the work site should be man and woman? So, I 7 think that some people are still in the dark, so I 8 guess it's our duty to stand up and let them make 9 sure, let them hear our voices loud and strong, and 10 any way, and I must commend our Chairperson, we have 11 really been on women's issues, the trafficking, live 12 women trafficking, that was such deep to my heart, 13 and we have to stay on top of all small 14 discriminations and big ones. 15 So, I want to thank you for being 16 here, and you know you have me any way you need me. 17 Thank you. 18 CHAIRPERSON SEARS: Thank you very 19 much, Councilwoman. It's been a really excellent 20 hearing, and as we've had the Council Members come 21 in and out, you've added more statistics, which made 22 a very large impression, and what I think today 23 demonstrates, that we really need to stay very close 24 to the issue. I think we need to define it as it is. 25 I don't think we can sugar coat it no matter where 90 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 we are, and we cannot be afraid of having labels 3 attached to that. 4 I know this Committee has opened 5 doors on issues, as Councilwoman Mealy says, that 6 have never been opened before, and it mad an amazing 7 impact on those who come to the hearings. 8 So, I really want to thank you. We 9 will keep you abreast of where we go from today. You 10 can be rest assured we will advocate wherever we 11 have to. We've also submitted a reso to I think 12 Washington DC, on one of Carolyn Maloney's issues, 13 and she begged for it. Resolutions don't get at the 14 bottom of a drawer and stay there. I was told that 15 by my own Congressman. He had something detained in 16 his Education Committee and I said maybe a 17 resolution might help you. And sure enough we did 18 it, and two weeks later, he said, you know, we think 19 about resolutions, but two weeks later it came out 20 of committee. So, it's very encouraging to do that 21 because we follow. We make sure it's not at the 22 bottom of the pile or tough to weigh in archives 23 somewhere. So, your time is well spent coming and 24 testifying. 25 I want to thank each and every one of 91 1 COMMITTEE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES 2 you. If there is no further testimony, someone 3 wishes to speak? I am now going to adjourn this 4 hearing. Thank you, again. Meeting adjourned. 5 (Hearing concluded at 12:17 p.m.) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 92 1 2 CERTIFICATION 3 4 5 STATE OF NEW YORK ) 6 COUNTY OF NEW YORK ) 7 8 9 I, JOAN GARCIA, do hereby certify 10 that the foregoing is a true and accurate transcript 11 of the within proceeding. 12 I further certify that I am not 13 related to any of the parties to this action by 14 blood or marriage, and that I am in no way 15 interested in the outcome of this matter. 16 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto 17 set my hand this 17th day of April 2008. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 --------------------- 25 JOAN GARCIA 93 1 2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I, JOAN GARCIA, do hereby certify the 10 aforesaid to be a true and accurate copy of the 11 transcription of the audio tapes of this hearing. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ----------------------- JOAN GARCIA 25