1 2 CITY COUNCIL 3 CITY OF NEW YORK 4 -------------------------------x 5 THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE MINUTES 6 of the 7 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 8 -------------------------------x 9 10 March 1, 2001 Start: 10:25 a.m. 11 Recess: 3:40 p.m. 12 City Hall Council Chambers 13 New York, New York 14 B E F O R E: 15 VICTOR ROBLES 16 Chairperson, 17 COUNCIL MEMBERS: Sheldon Leffler 18 Una Clarke Philip Reed 19 Pedro Espada Christine Quinn 20 Stanley Michels Kathryn Freed 21 Stephen DiBrienza Speaker Peter Vallone 22 23 24 LEGAL-EASE COURT REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 217 Broadway - Suite 511 25 New York, New York 10007 (800) 756-3410 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 2 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S 3 Joe Cherner 4 Smoke Free Educational Services 5 Edward Sarfaty 6 Susan Groeschel 7 Assembly Member Richard Gottfried 64th Assembly District, New 8 John Cook 9 United Restaurant Liquor Dealers of Manhattan 10 Kristen Eastlick American Beverage Institute 11 E. Charles Hunt 12 New York State Restaurant Association 13 Dileep Bal, MD American Cancer Society 14 Douglas Schoen 15 Penn Schoen & Berland 16 Richard Christie Greater New York Restaurant And 17 Liquor Dealers Association 18 Tom McMahon New York City Partnership 19 Jonathan L. Halperin, MD 20 American Heart Association 21 Neil Schachter, MD American Lung Association 22 Joseph Spinnato 23 Hotel Association of New York City 24 Daniel Blaine Danny Blaine's Bar and Restaurant 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 3 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S (CONTINUED) 3 Charles Lopresto 4 Josepina Restaurant 5 Michael O'Neal O'Neal's Restaurant 6 Ellen Hart Sturm 7 Iridium Ellen's Stardust Diner 8 David M. Newman 9 New York Commission for Occupational Safety and Health 10 John Moloney 11 Robert Emmetts Bar and Restaurant 12 Karen Cavanagh Cavanagh's Pub and 13 Staten Island Restaurant Association 14 James McBratney Staten Island Restaurant and 15 Tavern Association 16 James Repace 17 Andrew Hyland, PhD Roswell Park Cancer Institute 18 Clarita Herrera, MD 19 John M. Mulvey 20 Bridget's Public House and Staten Island Restaurant Association 21 Kerry Smith 22 New York Restaurant Association 23 Audrey Silk NYC CLASH 24 Dr. Ben Chu 25 Coalition for a Smoke Free City Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 4 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S (CONTINUED) 3 Phil Konigsberg 4 Smoke Free Educational Services 5 Karen Masur 6 Alan Silverberg 7 Scott Lubinsky Grey Dog 8 Claire Millman 9 Alliance for Smoke Free Air 10 Harold A. Taylor Joe Cherner/Cancer Society 11 Dave Palmer 12 Representative of Blair Horner New York Public Interest Research Group 13 Eileen B. Weiss 14 Individual Restaurant Workers 15 Michael Seserman State Director of Tobacco and Program Services 16 American Cancer Society 17 Serena Goldstein 18 Tim Filler Americans for Nonsmokers rights 19 Joanna Dearlove 20 University of California, San Francisco 21 Annemarie Charlesworth University of California, San Francisco 22 Debra Siegel 23 Student of Tottenville High School Staten Island 24 Mahmoud Youssef 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 5 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S (CONTINUED) 3 Don Gemson, MD 4 Alison Jolicoeur 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 6 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Good morning. The 3 Committee on Health is now in session. 4 Good morning, and welcome to the 5 Health Committee's Intro. On 865. I am Council 6 Member Victor Robles, and I am privileged to chair 7 this Committee. 8 This Intro will amend the Smoke Free 9 Air Act of 1995, which currently restricts smoking 10 in many public places, including restaurant dining 11 areas, work places, stadiums, day care centers and 12 schools. 13 First of all, I want to thank the 14 Speaker for his leadership on this issue. He 15 shepherded the Smoke Free Air Act of 1995, which I 16 am proud to say paved the way for other states, 17 cities and local governments to enact similar 18 legislation to protect their citizens from 19 secondhand smoke. 20 Having said that, the 21 Smoke Free Air Act was enacted to protect 22 non-smokers and children to the dangers of 23 secondhand smoke. Amendments that are the focus of 24 today's hearing would further restrict smoking in 25 restaurants, offices and ban smoking in City-owned Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 7 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 cars. 3 As you may recall, the Smoke Free Air 4 Act was the subject of extensive public debate. I 5 vividly remember victims of throat and lung cancer 6 who came before this Committee to testify on the 7 pains and suffering that tobacco smoke inflicts on 8 people. 9 Last year this Committee held an 10 oversight hearing on the Smoke Free Air Act to see 11 how the act has been implemented in the five years 12 since it was enacted. 13 Not only was the act supported by 14 many, the Council was urged to strengthen the act to 15 restrict smoking in restaurants and offices even 16 more. 17 In addition, over the years, I have 18 received quite a few letters as Chair of the Health 19 Committee, urging me to support tightening up the 20 Smoke Free Air Act. 21 Intro. No. 865 is the fruit of those 22 demands made to the Speaker and to me and to the 23 Council for the people of New York City. 24 Significant aspects of the 25 legislation includes: Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 8 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Smoking will no longer be allowed 3 inside the dining areas of restaurants, even at the 4 restaurant bar or those restaurants with 35 seats or 5 less; however, smoking will be allowed in a separate 6 smoking lounge in the restaurant. The separate 7 smoking lounge is defined as an enclosed room in the 8 restaurants whose primary purpose is for smoking and 9 in which only beverage services and not food 10 services are provided. 11 A separate smoking lounge must be 12 completely enclosed on all sides, and can't be more 13 than 25 percent of the whole square footage of the 14 area in the restaurant offering public dining, 15 beverage services and lounges. 16 This legislation continues to allow 17 smoking in bars. Let me repeat that. This 18 legislation continues to allow smoking in bars. And 19 it continues to allow smoking in bars, in hotels, in 20 motels and cabaret and nightclubs and public areas 21 where bingo is held. 22 The bill continues to allow smoking 23 in outdoor areas of restaurants, that is the outdoor 24 smoking section can be up to 25 percent of the 25 outdoor seating capacity. However, restaurants will Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 9 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 have to ask whether customers to be seated outside 3 want to sit in the smoking or non-smoking section. 4 As to offices, the legislation still 5 allows smoking in private enclosed offices, but 6 restricts smoking to the regular occupants of the 7 office. However, the employee is still able to make 8 available separate smoking rooms. This bill will 9 completely ban smoking from city cars. 10 The sections of the law will take 11 effect 180 days after enactment. 12 Finally, this legislation will create 13 a secondhand smoke air quality task force which will 14 be responsible for reporting to the Council on its 15 findings with respect to the impact the Smoke Free 16 Air Act has had on secondhand smoke, and on the 17 emerging technologies that are designed to clean 18 smoke-filled rooms. This part of the law will take 19 effect immediately. 20 Today we will hear from advocates and 21 opponents of this legislation, as well as the 22 general public. First, let me turn to the prime 23 sponsor and the Speaker of the Council of the City 24 of New York for his remarks with respect to his 25 bill. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 10 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Mr. Speaker. 3 SPEAKER VALLONE: Thank you, Mr. 4 Chair, and members of the Committee, and thank you 5 all concerning what is always a very controversial, 6 misunderstood and important issue. 7 When I first introduced the Indoor 8 Clean Air Act over a decade ago, the argument then 9 was that this does not effect health. The tobacco 10 industry claims and even testified under oath that 11 there was no proof that tobacco had any effect, 12 either firsthand or secondhand smoke. 13 Well, today everyone knows that is 14 not the case. Everyone knows that those of us who 15 grew up decades ago when smoking was billed as the 16 thing to do, the healthy way to grow, the healthy 17 way and romantic way to live a good life - that was 18 all a lot of bunk, and it has made a lot of people 19 who should be here today not being here today. 20 Smoking kills. That's a very simple and true 21 statement. Not only the smoker, but those who are 22 forced to breathe the smoke. 23 Now, I am fully aware, because I am 24 part of that generation, that there are many, many 25 people who are addicted to smoking, because they Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 11 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 grew up in a generation in which there was really 3 very little choice. If you didn't smoke, people 4 thought something was wrong with you. 5 Well, we know that is not the case 6 today. And what we did, and we started the process 7 over a decade ago, with the Indoor Clean Air Act 8 there was a great deal of controversy, but that 9 controversy is over with in terms of health. I don't 10 know anyone who really correctly examines the facts 11 who can come to any other conclusion that it is 12 detrimental to your health and that it does indeed 13 kill. 14 Now what we did and we further 15 expanded the act to include restaurants, as you 16 know, and there was a great deal of consternation 17 among the restaurants because at that time we were 18 in a fiscal crisis and money was not as freely 19 flowing as it was today, and we were assured that if 20 we did anything whatsoever to limit the amount of 21 smoking in restaurants, that it would bring business 22 and tourism to an end in this City, we know that is 23 not true. It is definitely not true. Business has 24 been booming, tourism is better than it ever has 25 been. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 12 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 But when we did it at the time, we 3 weren't quite sure, and we said we would be willing 4 to come back and revisit the bill if indeed there 5 was any economic loss or if indeed the tourism 6 capital of the world, New York City, would be 7 adversely affected. And based upon our analysis, and 8 that is why we are having this hearing today, that's 9 not the case at all. 10 So, what we are doing is we are just 11 extending what we started. Just saying, hey, in 12 restaurants, at least in restaurants, let's stop 13 this nonsense of saying whether it is 35 members or 14 less. As a matter of fact, 35 members or less, it's 15 more dangerous to smoke in that kind of environment 16 in that kind of a surrounding, so we want to 17 eliminate that. 18 We are also saying, let's eliminate 19 the fiction of a restaurant or a bar. It's either a 20 restaurant or it's a bar. And if it is a restaurant, 21 if more than 40 percent of the monies that are 22 earned are from food then it is a restaurant, if 23 less, then it is a bar. So, we are leaving bars 24 alone because of the unique circumstances, but we 25 are saying a restaurant is a restaurant is a Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 13 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 restaurant and there will be no smoking. 3 There can be exceptions. As you know, 4 there can be lounges, there can be other exceptions 5 that you can examine in great detail in the bill and 6 that is not being changed. 7 And lastly, we are going into the any 8 City-owned vehicles or cars. No one else should be 9 allowed to breathe the smoke if it is City-owned 10 because it is a City policy, and most of the rest of 11 the bill is pretty much intact. 12 A person in their private office who 13 is addicted can smoke if it can't make anyone else 14 breathe that smoke. 15 So, it isn't at all what it has been 16 made out to be by some of the media, some kind of a 17 witch hunt against smoke. It is not at all. I know, 18 and no one knows better than me, that there are 19 people who cannot stop smoking as much as they would 20 like to stop smoking. So, this is not a crusade 21 against smokers, this is simply an extension of what 22 this City started to do over a decade ago and there 23 is much controversy, which has been copied all over 24 the land, that if at all possible, try not to smoke, 25 it shortens your life by many, many years, and there Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 14 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 is no reason to shorten anyone else's life and force 3 them to breathe this smoke. And that includes 4 employees, people who have to work for a living. 5 So, that is basically what we are 6 doing. It is not as bad as you think it is, it is 7 simply an extension and it is an extension of just 8 good policy. And the policy should be, set an 9 example, try to make sure that kids don't start 10 something that they won't be able to finish. Let 11 them live a long life and a healthy life any way we 12 can help them. 13 Those of us who do have to smoke, 14 let's not try and make anyone else breathe that 15 smoke. Other than that, this is not the dire bill 16 that people are making it out to be. It is a good 17 bill, but it is not passed yet. Anyone who has an 18 opportunity to be for or against this bill right now 19 under the able leadership of Chairperson Robles, who 20 is one of the finest and best chairpersons that this 21 City has ever seen, everybody will have an 22 opportunity to testify for and against, and if there 23 are going to be amendments, there will be 24 amendments, and that is why we are here to listen. 25 So, thank you very much. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 15 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you, Mr. 3 Speaker. Let me do some house chores first by 4 introducing my colleagues who are members of the 5 Committee who are with us. 6 Next to the Speaker is Council Member 7 Pedro Espada from the Bronx. The Chair of the 8 Subcommittee of this Committee on Mental Health, 9 Mental Retardation and Alcoholism Services, Council 10 Member Una Clarke from Brooklyn, and the ranking 11 member, ranking minority member, not ranking member, 12 ranking minority member of the Council, Council 13 Member Jim Oddo from Staten Island. Of course I have 14 my Counsels to the Committee, Judith and Laura, and 15 I am honored because the Speaker is here, because he 16 is the Speaker's Counsel, General Counsel, Richard 17 Weingberg, and, of course, Ted. 18 And I also see that we have been 19 joined, although not a member but one who has always 20 been part of us from day one when I was just a 21 member of this Committee, before I took over as the 22 Chair, Council Member Stan Michels from Manhattan. 23 Let me also set some rules. 24 As you can see, the place is packed. 25 I am not going anywhere. The one thing about this Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 16 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Committee and this Chair, if nobody else, I will sit 3 to the very end. 4 However, because there is a large 5 number of people, I am not going to use the clock. 6 That has been my -- I believe public hearings are to 7 hear the public. But I ask you to have the courtesy 8 that because we have so many people, what happens is 9 we repeat, repeat, repeat. Let's deal with the 10 issues, set the tone, so that I don't have to then 11 start restricting you in terms of it, but if I see 12 that we are running beyond and there are still a lot 13 of people, I will not hesitate to use a time. And, 14 so, I ask for your cooperation. 15 Second, I have been asked, because we 16 have so many cameras, and you notice I did, anyone 17 who has cell phones, please shut them off because 18 usually those things go off while in the middle, and 19 they are asked to do that. 20 Let me also say that we were, 21 traditionally we allow the Administration to always 22 lead any major bill or pending bill. I have been 23 instructed both by General Counsel for the Speaker, 24 I also saw the Chief of Staff to the Speaker, John 25 Banks, so I just wanted to acknowledge him, too, and Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 17 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 I have been given this and I will read it into the 3 record. 4 We have received from the Mayor's 5 Office a memorandum in opposition to Intro. 865. The 6 memo says the current law is satisfactory and should 7 not be changed. 8 So, I accept the memorandum from the 9 Mayor's Office as the lead person, and I enter it 10 for the record. 11 What we are also going to do is open 12 up, a panel of both pro supporting and opponents, 13 and then I see also that there are elected 14 officials, the customary and courtesy of the Speaker 15 under Speaker Vallone's leadership that when elected 16 officials are asked to testify, that we extend their 17 courtesy. So, after those two leading groups then I 18 will see there are elected officials. I know that 19 the distinguished chairman of the Assembly Health 20 Committee which I was privileged to serve with when 21 I was a member of the Assembly, Richard Gottfried is 22 in the audience, so after those two groups, if there 23 are elected officials we will call upon them and 24 then we will go back to those in support, those in 25 opposition or those opponents, so that no one can Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 18 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 say that one is the best over the other. 3 Having said that, unless anybody has 4 any statements before we move ahead, and seeing no 5 member then why don't we call our first panel. 6 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Joe Cherner 7 from Smoke Free Educational Services. Susan 8 Groeschel. Edward Sarfaty. 9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay, we called 10 three names and I see four people. 11 Let me say while we are getting 12 ready, we used to have stenographers, technology now 13 calls that we need you to speak into the mikes 14 because this is done by technology. We need you to 15 identify yourself and who you represent and then 16 proceed with your statement. 17 So, who is going to be first? Each 18 one of you can identify yourself and then proceed 19 with your statement. 20 MR. CHERNER: Okay. Thank you. My name 21 is Joe Cherner, the President of Smoke Free 22 Educational Services. 23 I remember coming to this Council 24 Chambers for the first time 15 years ago, when 25 Speaker Vallone at that time was called the Majority Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 19 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Leader, and it was just recently that he had been 3 chosen Majority Leader by his peers. And he had 4 introduced a bill at that time, 15 years ago, with 5 the novel idea that restaurants should set aside a 6 separate area for people who wouldn't be exposed to 7 smoke. And this room was packed to the rafters, it 8 makes today's group look like a bridge club. 9 This room had people absolutely full 10 to the balcony and full to the back door testifying 11 and at that time Michael O'Neill, who I see is here, 12 was the Chair of the New York City Restaurant 13 Association, and the Restaurant Association and the 14 Restaurant owners testified at that time that New 15 Yorkers were going to have knife fights and gun 16 fights and fist fights and that the restaurant 17 owners shouldn't be police officers, that they would 18 rather have the restaurant be completely smoke-free 19 rather than to have to deal with separate sections. 20 And I am happy to say that Michael 21 O'Neill is here today, as one of the Speaker and the 22 City Council's strongest supports in support of 23 Smoke Free restaurant legislation. 24 I saw at that time for the first 25 time, and I was very new to the political process Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 20 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 and didn't understand it that well, I saw for the 3 first time at that time what it meant to be a 4 leader. And Speaker Vallone, you stood up through 5 this incredible lobby of tobacco interests that had 6 paid for all of the full page ads that came out 7 attacking you and your colleagues, and you stood up 8 and you said, no, this is the right thing to do, 9 this is not going to, as you all claim, start fights 10 in a restaurant, drive tourism out of New York City, 11 cause unemployment, drive us bankrupt, put us out of 12 business, and all of these things that the 13 restaurant owners had claimed they would do, and, of 14 course they said that the current law is working, it 15 is tough but firm and we have gotten used to it and 16 we can deal with it. And you said, no, it's not 17 right, and passed that legislation. 18 A couple years later you passed 19 legislation that prohibited the free distribution of 20 cigarettes in the streets of New York City. We 21 brought in film from 20 20 that showed cigarette 22 models giving out free cigarettes to teenagers in 23 front of the teen concert at Madison Square Garden 24 for one of the greatest teen idols at the time, and 25 the tobacco industry had packed the hearing room. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 21 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 And they said, we would never give out free 3 cigarettes to children. "It is against our policy, 4 we have internal rules against. You have to be 18 or 5 you can't get free cigarettes," and then we showed 6 pictures of them giving out cigarettes to children, 7 and these films of them giving out the free 8 cigarettes to children. And you looked at them and 9 you said, you know, I don't know how you guys sleep 10 at night and how you think that I could let you get 11 away with this. It isn't right, and you can't give 12 out free cigarettes on the streets of New York City 13 anymore and you passed that legislation. 14 The following year, you addressed the 15 issue of selling cigarettes from vending machines, 16 which as we all know didn't know how old a purchaser 17 was. And the vending operators came in here with mom 18 and pop businesses as their theme, and they said we 19 would never sell cigarettes from our vending 20 machines to youth. You are going to put us out of 21 business and it is going to cause unemployment and 22 there is going to be havoc and why would you do this 23 to us? And we brought in kids that had bought 24 cigarettes from every vending machine in all five 25 boroughs, and they put them on the table and they Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 22 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 showed you from the same vendors who were here 3 testifying that their machines would never sell 4 cigarettes to minors. 5 And you look at them and you said, I 6 am sorry this isn't right. This is a lethal product, 7 it's the number one cause of disease and death in 8 New York City, and it is not right for this product 9 to be sold in a careless manner in a way that 10 children can buy them. And you passed legislation 11 standing up to these special interest groups saying 12 that we won't allow cigarettes to be sold in vending 13 machines anymore. 14 Of course, each time you passed 15 legislation then the state would do it, then other 16 states and cities would do it, and you have done 17 this for the entire country. 18 A couple years later you introduced 19 legislation to make our schools 100 percent tobacco 20 free, no tobacco use by anyone, anywhere, any time 21 on any school property. And of all people, the 22 United Federation of Teachers, the Teachers Union, 23 came in and testified against it, and said that they 24 wanted teachers to have the right to be able to 25 smoke in school. And other teachers we brought in Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 23 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 said it is not fair in the teachers' room for us to 3 have to breathe their smoke. And the ACLU, which we 4 didn't know at the time had received a million 5 dollars from the tobacco cartel, but the ACLU came 6 in and testified that teachers had a right to smoke 7 at school. And I am happy to say that the Teachers 8 Union is here today to testify in support of Smoke 9 Free workplace legislation as one of your strongest 10 supporters. 11 A few years later you introduced 12 legislation called the Tobacco Product Regulation 13 Act, that would require countering advertising on 14 the subways because the number one advertiser in the 15 subways at that time was the tobacco industry. Over 16 50 percent of the ads on the subways were for 17 cigarettes, and we brought in students who testified 18 that over 400,000 New York City school children take 19 the subways to school each day, that for them the 20 subways was their school bus, and that it was wrong 21 on their school bus to be pushing all of these 22 cigarette ads down their throat. 23 And we had again the ACLU came in and 24 testified against you, and the advertising agencies 25 and the MTA and the whole room was packed with Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 24 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 people who said you are crazy, you are going to put 3 us out of business, there is a main source of 4 revenue, we are not going to be able to survive, and 5 of course you passed that legislation standing up to 6 these special interests, and at the end of that year 7 when their contract was up, the new contract was 8 signed without tobacco advertising for 25 percent 9 more money they were paying for that space without 10 the right to advertise tobacco products. 11 In 1995, you introduced legislation 12 called the Smoke Free Air Act, that improved on the 13 1987 law of separate sections. And the 1995 Smoke 14 Free Air Act required the dining area of restaurants 15 to be Smoke Free. You could smoke in the bar area 16 and you could smoke in small restaurants, and this 17 room went wild. It was packed with all of these 18 special interests, but for the first time the 19 tobacco industry no longer testified. 20 Of course it was still behind the 21 scenes financing everybody and financing all of the 22 full-page ads that appeared. And I brought one of 23 those ads, at the time it was sponsored by United 24 Restaurants Hotel and Tavern Association. Full-page 25 ads in every newspaper in New York saying that the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 25 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 City Council was backwards, that you are supposed to 3 help New York, not hurt New York, and you were going 4 to drive tourism out of New York, the restaurant 5 business was going to close, they were going to have 6 layoffs, there was going to be unemployment, there 7 was going to be turmoil, it was going to be terrible 8 for New York City tax revenue, what are you doing? 9 And you stood up to this industry 10 once again, and you told them, no, this is the right 11 thing to do and you passed the Smoke Free Air Act. 12 And I am happy to say that at that hearing United 13 Hotel Tavern and Restaurant Association was forced 14 under oath to testify that all of their ads had been 15 paid for by Philip Morris. And I am happy to say 16 that the United Hotel Tavern and Restaurant 17 Association is not here today to testify against 18 this bill that they were so adamantly against 19 supposedly in 1995. 20 In 1997, you introduced a bill that 21 would deal with tobacco advertising and it would 22 eliminate tobacco advertising on the streets of New 23 York City, on the store fronts, the push/pull 24 stickers that say cigarettes push, cigarettes pull, 25 or Marlboro push, Marlboro pull, which led to the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 26 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Attorney General of the United States coming to an 3 agreement with the tobacco cartel that prohibited 4 all outdoor advertising in the United States, and 5 even though the tobacco cartel and their allies sued 6 you, and it is still in court, we have won the first 7 two rounds, but the last round is still yet to be 8 decided in our favor, and it will be, and it will be 9 soon, it led to the elimination of all outdoor 10 tobacco advertising in the United States. And once 11 again you stood up to, in that case Madison Avenue 12 and the advertising agencies. 13 The store owners came in and it made 14 every other hearing before it look like a small 15 hearing because this place was packed with what they 16 said were small business owners wearing badges that 17 said SOS, Save Our Stores, that this was going to 18 put them out of business, that the small mom and 19 pops were going to go out of business because of 20 this bill. 21 Well, I was talking to someone in the 22 back of the room who told me his bus was leaving for 23 lunch. And I said what do you mean? And he was 24 wearing one of those badges. And he said, well, 25 Philip Morris had bused them all in. So, I went out Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 27 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 to the New York Times reporter and I said, you know 3 all these people wearing SOS, Small Business Owner 4 badges, small business owners, are Philip Morris 5 employees. And then the New York Times wrote an 6 article the next day about how the hearing had been 7 packed with people who were supplied here by Philip 8 Morris. And once again you stood up to all these 9 special interests, the small business, the Philip 10 Morris, the advertising agencies, and you passed 11 legislation that was right for New York City. 12 And then finally in 1999, you passed 13 a bill that you would think would have no opposition 14 and that was raising penalties for the illegal sale 15 of cigarettes to minors. And, again, the hearing 16 room was packed. It was packed again with small 17 businesses who said this was going to put them out 18 of business. If they had to verify that their 19 employees weren't selling cigarettes, and by the 20 way, they never did, "we never, ever sell cigarettes 21 to minors," but it was going to put them out of 22 business if you were going to verify it, and if you 23 were going to penalize them for doing it. And the 24 room was packed with small business owners who said 25 it was going to put them out of business. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 28 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 And once again you stood up to the 3 special interests and said, no, it is wrong, and it 4 is wrong to sell cigarettes to minors and if you do 5 it, you are going to get penalized. And you passed 6 that legislation. 7 Every single time Speaker Vallone, 8 your legislation and your colleagues' legislation, 9 they were strongly in support of you at every stand, 10 has led to legislation that has been passed by the 11 State Legislature, and legislatures across this 12 country. 13 I know when you are in the middle of 14 a career it is very difficult to step back and see 15 what you have done, and it is very difficult 16 probably for you to realize what you have done in 17 the 15 years of the leadership of the New York City 18 Council, but you and along with your colleagues, and 19 particularly because of your leadership, have made 20 this City a safer, healthier place to live and you 21 have protected the health of future generations who 22 may not grow up addicted to tobacco and dying of 23 lung cancer. From that I think on behalf of everyone 24 in this room, whether they are here in support of 25 this legislation, or opposed to this legislation, I Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 29 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 think we all owe you are deepest gratitude. 3 SPEAKER VALLONE: I should have let 4 you read my statement, Joe. 5 MR. CHERNER: Now, today's issue: The 6 amendment to the Smoke Free Air Act, the Smoke Free 7 Air Act of 2001. 8 First of all, again, in 1995, as in 9 1987, the restaurant owners testified that the 10 current law was tough but we are learning to live 11 with it and it is fair. And it should be the law. 12 So, in 1987 they came and said, the current law is 13 working, don't change it. It is tough but fair. In 14 1995, they came to the City Council and said, the 15 current law is working. It is tough but fair. Don't 16 change it. And they are going to come to you today 17 and they are going to tell you, the current law is 18 working. It is tough but fair. We don't need to 19 change it. 20 If we listen to tobacco interests, we 21 will never have progress, because they always say 22 the same thing, the current law is working. We don't 23 need to change it. But five states and more than 100 24 cities have passed 100 percent smoke free workplace 25 legislation, and we have enough data now to know Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 30 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 that smoke free workplace legislation is not only 3 good for health, it is great for business. Everyone 4 wants a smoke free work environment. And even 5 smokers would rather dine in clean indoor air. An 6 overwhelming majority of workers, by every poll we 7 have done, have shown that the overwhelming majority 8 would prefer to dine in a clean, safe, smoke free 9 environment. 10 Our goal has never changed. Our goal 11 has always been that every worker deserves a smoke 12 free workplace, that the health of restaurant 13 workers is just as important as the health of flight 14 attendants, or shopkeepers, or lawyers or doctors or 15 business men or City Council members or health 16 advocates or reporters. Everybody's health is 17 equally important, and the health of restaurant 18 workers should not be second class. These people are 19 not second class citizens. And sure, there are some 20 restaurant workers who would like to work in a 21 smoking environment, they would like to be exposed 22 to tobacco smoke, just as there are some flight 23 attendants who would like to be exposed t it, just 24 as there are some asbestos workers who would like to 25 be exposed to asbestos, but for the health of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 31 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 everybody, everyone deserves a smoke free work 3 environment, and this bill that you have introduced 4 today, and I passed out a page to you all, has the 5 support of every candidate for Mayor, every leading 6 public official in this town, even the Borough 7 President of Staten Island, a republican, the first 8 thing he did when he took office was make Borough 9 Hall smoke free. It has the support of Senator 10 Schumer, Senator Clinton, the congressmen who 11 represent this City. It has the support of every 12 major union leader in the City, whether it be Dennis 13 Rivera of 1199, the United Federation of Teachers, 14 as I said, Arthur Cheliotis, Sony Hall, Jay Maser, 15 Peter Gorman, every major union leader in this City 16 is 100 percent behind you, because they feel the 17 health of their workers is important too. Every 18 single worker deserves a smoke free work 19 environment, and much thanks to you and your 20 colleagues, many of them already have it, and due to 21 this bill, a lot more of them are going to get it. 22 I would like to introduce a couple of 23 people who came with me today. As you know, we had 24 several more who were similar to them, but we are 25 only allowed a panel of three, and I hope that these Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 32 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 two will give you a representative of the panel that 3 I originally wanted. They are restaurant people who 4 have been exposed to smoke in restaurants. 5 MR. SARFATY: Good morning. My name is 6 Edward Sarfaty, and I am here today to applaud the 7 introduction of this legislation, and also to 8 propose to you and implore you to expand it to cover 9 all employees in all situations. 10 I am a bartender in Manhattan. I work 11 in a place on the Upper East Side. The amount of 12 smoke that I deal with on a daily basis is 13 horrendous. As a result of the smoke that I deal 14 with, me and my co-workers have an extremely high 15 incidence of sinus infection, cold, cough, bronchial 16 ailments. One co-worker recently had part of his 17 lung removed as a result of exposure to smoke over a 18 period of time. 19 I come home from the bar almost every 20 night with a runny nose, red eyes, scratchy throat, 21 not to mention that my clothes smell of smoke. 22 Customers who do not smoke, and those 23 who do, often complain about the quality of air in 24 the establishment. Many of them don't stay as long 25 as they would like to. Many of them refuse to come Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 33 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 in anymore. And most of them do not spend the money 3 that they would normally spend if they did stay 4 longer. 5 The management would like us to 6 believe that that will be bad for business to clean 7 up the air, but it makes good business sense to have 8 people staying longer in an establishment of that 9 kind. 10 The bottom line is smoke is dangerous 11 for everyone, including bartenders and restaurant 12 workers. No one should have to have a workplace that 13 is unfree of unnecessary hazards. Smoking in some 14 environments and not in others is unconscionable. I 15 believe that passing legislation that protects some 16 workers while ignoring the needs of others and not 17 protecting them from unnecessary hazards, violates 18 the spirit of equal protection under the 19 constitution. Asbestos, benzene and other toxic 20 substances are banned without exception, cigarette 21 smoke should be as well. 22 Just as a person's right to swing his 23 arm ends where the other person's nose begin, a 24 person's right to smoke should end where the other 25 person's lungs begin. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 34 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 I urge you to work to pass this 3 legislation and to expand it to include the 4 workplaces of every worker in New York City. 5 Thank you. 6 MS. GROESCHEL: Good morning. My name 7 is Susan Goreschel, I am going to speak on behalf of 8 artists of New York who suffer from secondhand smoke 9 while pursuing their artistic dreams. I speak 10 especially for vocal artists, actors, voice-over and 11 jingle artists, singers of genres. I am an opera 12 singer and a concert singer. You may have seen my 13 Violetta in La Traviata in Central Park in 1999. You 14 may catch my debut at Carnegie Hall on Memorial Day 15 this year, I will be singing John Rutter's Requiem. 16 I am blessed to have opportunities to 17 share my gift. But in the early days of my career, 18 I, like millions of artists in this City, worked in 19 restaurants to pay the rent, pay for music and 20 lessons and accompanist fees. Restaurant work seemed 21 ideal, evening work was lucrative and it gave me 22 time for auditions during the day. But the work 23 environment was not friendly to a singer's voice. I 24 recall frustrating mornings when my vocal chords 25 were swollen from breathing the smoke in the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 35 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 restaurant the night before, and I had to cancel my 3 audition, I could not be heard at my optimal best. 4 It became too much over time and I 5 had to choose another line of survival work and I 6 did. I was able to, and I did what I had to do to 7 preserve my gift. 8 How many artists here now still 9 struggle like I did then? My niece studies voice 10 here now. She works in a restaurant in SoHo, and she 11 suffers from having to serve the smokers at the 12 restaurant bars, and from passing through their 13 smoky area constantly through her work. There is no 14 six foot partition, as mandated to keep the smoke 15 from reaching the non-smokers, and if there were, it 16 would not help the workers there, the waiters, the 17 bus person, the bartenders, who, as my niece, suffer 18 from headaches, scratchy and dry throats and 19 allergies they did not have before working there. 20 Must my niece and others like her 21 come to the same choice I had to make? Must they 22 give up a good job that they enjoy with people they 23 like, jobs that allow them the freedom to pursue 24 their art? Why? Because somebody needs to smoke? No. 25 The current and next generations of artists in this Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 36 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 City and everywhere, whether they are waiters, or 3 the artistic patrons, should not have to suffer 4 secondhand smoke. How many budding stars are out 5 there right now serving you a drink or dinner? Will 6 they miss their breaks because they had to cancel an 7 audition? Let's make sure they don't. 8 Make their workplaces smoke free so 9 they will have an opportunity to share with you 10 their art and inspire you with the fullness of their 11 artistic expression. 12 My mother started smoking Super King 13 non-filter cigarettes when she was 15 because it was 14 sophisticated. She stopped 55 years later because 15 she had a massive coronary. Her diminished existence 16 was an incredible frustration for her. She fought 17 for an additional 14 years to live a life of quality 18 and vitality. She lost that fight in my arms on 19 January 7th, when she died of heart and lung 20 disease. 21 Three weeks later I was not surprised 22 to get this phone call and this invitation to speak 23 to you today. My mother was my greatest fan. She 24 would be proud. She tried to get two of her children 25 to stop smoking. She is probably still trying. It's Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 37 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 an addiction. It affects many people many ways. But 3 she would be proud that I am speaking to you today, 4 and she would want me to show you exactly why this 5 is important. You need to protect the artists in 6 this City and everywhere else. She would want you to 7 hear this (singing an excerpt from the Bell song.) 8 Art in this City is not nonsense. 9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let me, before, 10 because I see that there are Council Members that 11 would like to ask a question, let me also 12 acknowledge members who have joined us, especially 13 members of this Committee. Council Member Phil Reed 14 from Manhattan. Council Member Chris Quinn, from 15 Manhattan, a member of this Committee. And our 16 newest member who was sworn in this week by the 17 Speaker, and our youngest member Council Member 18 Rivera, from the Bronx. Although not a member from 19 this Committee, but we welcome him. 20 Mr. Speaker, do you have any 21 questions? 22 SPEAKER VALLONE: No questions. Just 23 thanks to the panel. And for those in the audience 24 who don't know, Joe Cherner, I just want to make 25 sure that the record acknowledges the services you Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 38 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 have rendered. You gave up a very lucrative job on 3 Wall Street, you have dedicated your life literally 4 to saving the lives of others, and I think that you 5 are doing a great job. 6 Thank you very, very much, and thank 7 you all. And I am sure that we all express ourselves 8 in ways that we think are best to convey the 9 message, and I want to thank you very much for 10 speaking and singing from your heart. Thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let me, for my 12 colleagues that have joined us, let me again remind, 13 or at least let you know, I have not used the time 14 clock, but, again, there are a lot of people who 15 want to testify, so I will say to the Council 16 Members that after speaking to the Speaker that I 17 will allow questions of panels, however, I am going 18 to make a two-minute ruling on the clock. You have 19 two minutes to get your questions and your answers 20 within there, and then we will move on because this 21 is going to be a long day. 22 So, Council Member Oddo, you have two 23 minutes. 24 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Mr. Chairman, 25 Mr. Speaker, I promise I won't sing. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 39 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 (applause.) 3 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Thank you. You 4 have apparently heard me sing before. 5 Joe, you gave a very detailed account 6 of what this body has done under the leadership of 7 Speaker Vallone, I just want to add one other thing 8 to your rehashing of history. When we had folks that 9 you referred to testifying on the bill to ban the 10 outdoor advertising, their very testimony was, don't 11 do it this way. Penalize the individual shop owner 12 who is selling cigarettes illegally. 13 When we came back with the bill to 14 double and triple the fines, those very people who 15 suggested that that is what we do testified against 16 that bill. 17 So, your point about this sort of 18 slash and run mentality as some of the pro-tobacco 19 lobby is one that is well taken. 20 My question to you is this, though. 21 How do you respond to the argument that the economy 22 in this town has been so robust over the last five 23 years, and that the sea has sort of risen for 24 everyone, that it really isn't a fair indicator of 25 the potential damage this bill would do to the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 40 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 restaurant industry, and that when you add economy 3 invariably and perhaps we are seeing signs of it, 4 that economy has closed down that margin of 5 viability and going out of business for some of 6 these businesses lessons and that this may be a 7 factor in their eventual downfall and closing of 8 their business. 9 Can you just respond to that 10 argument? 11 MR. CHERNER: I think it is a very 12 important argument, you know, past the argument that 13 everyone deserves a smoke-free, healthy, safe work 14 environment, if the bill would hurt business, maybe 15 it is not a good idea to give everybody a safe 16 healthy work environment. But you can rest assured 17 that that is not the case here. 18 The studies that are done to examine 19 whether or not this is good for business, factor out 20 the boom in the economy. It takes all of the factors 21 out and then sees that there is an additional, in 22 addition to the boom that we have in the economy, 23 there is another addition of excess that we get 24 increased revenues just due to making the air clean. 25 And because we are not going to be the first City to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 41 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 do it, you also have the luxury of knowing that 3 hundreds of cities have already done this, and five 4 states have already done this. The State of 5 California, Maine, Vermont, Maryland and Utah have 6 already passed this legislation. California did 7 seven years ago. 8 There is enough evidence, and you are 9 going to hear today, we have experts from all over 10 the country here today that are going to present 11 evidence to you, the evidence is unclear, every 12 study that is done using sales tax data, and 13 published in peer reviewed medical journals, has 14 shown that in addition to the factoring out of the 15 economic boom we have seen, restaurant revenues have 16 gone up when we clean the air. The only studies you 17 are going to hear against that are from the tobacco 18 interests, none of them are done with sales tax 19 data, none of them have been published in any kind 20 of peer review journals, they are all done by the 21 tobacco industry, doing a survey of restaurant 22 owners who against the legislation are saying has 23 this hurt your business, and those restaurant owners 24 say, oh, yes, we lost 20 percent of our business. 25 Never any sales tax proof, never any peer review Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 42 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 proof, never any proof of any kind, just hearsay 3 that the tobacco industry is so good at getting out. 4 But every peer review study with sales tax data 5 shows smoke free restaurant legislation is not only 6 great for health, it is great for business up and 7 beyond the economic boom. 8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you, 9 Council Member. 10 Council Member Michels, two minutes. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: I won't need 12 two minutes. I wanted to commend, of course, Joe 13 Cherner and the work that his group has done over 14 the years, but I think when you are reciting the 15 history of this legislation, and going back to the 16 original piece of legislation, we would be remiss if 17 we didn't mention the heroism of a particular person 18 who lives in the City, and that is Dr. Harold 19 Friedman who came before the Committee, this 20 Committee, and I think is extremely persuasive in 21 having the Committee vote the legislation out, and I 22 think if it hadn't been for him it would have been 23 very difficult to do. He subsequently became the 24 President for the American Cancer Society, and now 25 after many great years at the Harlem Hospital, he Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 43 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 now is the president of North General Hospital, or 3 the CEO of North General Hospital, and I just ask 4 you to amend your history to include his name. 5 Thank you. 6 MR. CHERNER: Well, not only Dr. 7 Friedman, but you. As far as Dr. Friedman goes, I 8 spoke to Harold yesterday. Harold would have liked 9 very much to be here. He sends his best. He is a 10 strong supporter of this. He is also the President 11 of the President of the United States Commission on 12 Cancer. He sends his regard. He can't be here, he 13 has a previous engagement, and he urges you to 14 support smoke free workplace legislation for the 15 health of New Yorkers. He hasn't stopped advocating 16 for the health of New Yorkers. He is still there, he 17 just couldn't be here today. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 20 much. I appreciate it. 21 Let's call the next group of people. 22 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: E. Charles 23 Hunt, Greater New York Chapters of the New York 24 State Restaurant Association. John Cooks, from the 25 United Restaurant and Liquor Dealers of Manhattan. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 44 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Kristen Eastlick, America Beverage Institute. 3 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Chuck, before you 4 start, the Speaker has authorized me to tell you 5 that when we have our next hearing you can bring 6 whatever you want to, and you can play, too. Your 7 trumpet, okay? 8 Having said that, why don't you 9 identify yourself for the record and proceed. 10 MR.: Good morning, Mr. Speaker and 11 Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee. Thank you 12 for hearing our side of the story. 13 My name is E. Charles Hunt, I am the 14 Executive Vice President of the Greater New York 15 Chapters of the New York State Restaurant 16 Association. We are a trade association representing 17 over 2,000 service outlets within the five boroughs 18 of New York City. 19 Our membership is made up of all 20 types of operations, from neighborhood bars and 21 restaurants, to such prestigious establishments as 22 the 21 Club, Tavern on the Green. 23 First, and throughout this testimony 24 I wish to make it clear that we are not advocates 25 for smoking and we do not sell tobacco. We are in Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 45 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 the hospitality business. Our job is to accommodate 3 the needs and wishes of our customers, both 4 non-smoking and those who do choose to smoke. 5 As I am sure you have discerned by 6 now, the greater majority of the City's 7 restaurateurs are opposed to further restrictions on 8 the way we conduct our businesses. This proposed law 9 is more intrusive than the law that was imposed in 10 1995. 11 Following the introduction of Intro. 12 865, a no smoking survey was sent out to our New 13 York City membership to see how they felt about the 14 proposal to eliminate smoking totally in 15 restaurants. 16 Our members were asked if they were 17 in favor or opposed to the Speaker's bill. Over 85 18 percent were opposed. 19 When asked if they would prefer to 20 continue to operate under the present law, 78 21 percent said they would. 22 Many of those who said they wouldn't 23 obviously said no because they don't think it is 24 appropriate for the government to impose 25 restrictions on personal behavior and would prefer Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 46 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 to have no restrictions on accommodating smokers at 3 all. 4 Few, less than ten percent of our 5 respondents, indicated that they had ever received 6 complaints from employees about being assigned to 7 work in the area where smoking was permitted. 8 In fact, some stated they preferred 9 working in the smoking section because often smokers 10 spend more and are better tippers. 11 The final question in the survey 12 asked the restaurateurs if they would be willing to 13 invest in special air treatment equipment for their 14 smoking area. 15 Over 65 percent said yes. 16 Interestingly enough, 38 percent of 17 those responding yes to the question regarding 18 treatment equipment, said in the comment section 19 that they had already installed it. 20 A copy of this survey form and a 21 result of the survey are included there with your 22 copy of my testimony. 23 To amplify our industry's opposition 24 to the proposed law, I would like to share with you 25 a few of the comments received with the survey. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 47 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 "My customers and employees are 3 utterly comfortable with the current law." 4 "We have adjusted to the 1995 law and 5 feel it protects smokers and non-smokers as well." 6 "There are plenty of restaurants 7 which do not permit smoking and some which do. Let 8 guests and employees choose, not the government." 9 "With the technology and ventilation 10 available today, we can make the public available to 11 eat, drink, smoke or not smoke, no matter what their 12 desires are." 13 "I am very opposed to this bill and 14 feel it should be left to the discretion of the 15 owner of a business. If customers do not want to go 16 to a restaurant where smoking is allowed, they can 17 choose not to." 18 "The next thing is going to be that 19 they will regulate how much fat can be served with 20 your prime rib." 21 In 1995, this organization and the 22 hospitality industry in general opposed the Smoke 23 Free Air Act. There were predictions that if it was 24 enacted businesses would fail, profits would 25 disappear, employees would lose their jobs and Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 48 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 disaster and devastation would result. 3 Did these things happen? Perhaps 4 there were some instances where they did. Most 5 likely, however, the overall robust economy may have 6 masked or eliminated any disaster that might have 7 occurred. 8 A little over a year ago at an 9 oversight hearing to assist the effectiveness of the 10 1995 law, we all sat here and heard Dr. Neal Cohen, 11 New York City Commission of Health, testify to the 12 complaints regarding smoking in restaurants had 13 decreased dramatically. 14 During the oversight hearing, this 15 Association and individual restaurant and bar owners 16 stated they had learned to live with the 1995 law, 17 that it was working, and although limited, we were 18 still able to engage in the practice of hospitality. 19 Being able to serve non-smokers and smokers alike, 20 with a minimum of discomfort for either of the 21 groups. 22 Let's look briefly at some of the 23 other issues associated with this bill. 24 Smoking lounges. In today's climate 25 of commercial space rents exceeding $100 per square Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 49 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 foot, few, if any restaurants, are likely to 3 construct a smoking lounge, as outlined in the 4 proposed law. 5 Secondhand smoke, we do not wish to 6 disregard the health risks of smoking, however, in 7 respect to exposure to secondhand smoke in the 8 social workplace environment, there is still a wide 9 divergence of opinion. 10 I expect that other speakers today 11 will deal with this in greater detail. 12 The effect on tourism. New York City 13 is unique in our nation as a destination for foreign 14 visitors. The City's Convention and Visitors Bureau, 15 New York City and Company, on whose board I sit, has 16 forecast a close to 40 million tourists will flock 17 to our city during 2001. A great many of these 18 visitors are from Europe, Asia and South America. 19 Many are smokers who come from cultures where 20 smoking is considered to be part of the meal. In 21 their countries they do not have smoking 22 restrictions. They may choose to go elsewhere where 23 their habits are less regulated and the atmosphere 24 more hospitable. 25 Smoke-free restaurants by owner's Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 50 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 choice. Many restaurant owners have made their 3 restaurants smoke free. We fully support their right 4 to choose to do so. We also submit that their 5 customers have the right to exercise their choice of 6 whether or not to patronize a particular 7 establishment. 8 A restaurant meal is a discretionary 9 purchase. One need not dine where one is 10 uncomfortable or made to feel unwelcome. Secondhand 11 Smoke Air Quality Task Force. As reflected by the 12 many restaurateurs who have already voluntarily 13 invested in special equipment, there are many ways 14 to improve the air quality in the smoking section of 15 restaurants. New, more efficient technology is 16 constantly being introduced. The smoke-eaters 17 introduced in the 1960s have been replaced by a more 18 efficient and innovative devices. 19 In fact, I am told that that ambient 20 air and smoking section of certain restaurants 21 employing such technology is far superior that you 22 will find on our City's streets. 23 The proposed law calls for the 24 establishment of this task force to study the 25 effects of secondhand and the various emerging Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 51 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 technologies for dealing with secondhand smoke. 3 In light of the information available 4 since the enactment of the original law, would it 5 not make sense to complete this study before 6 amending the law? Aren't we putting the cart before 7 the horse here? 8 In summary, we sit here today 9 representing an industry that has helped establish 10 New York City as one of the prime destinations for 11 tourists from around the world. 12 It is an industry vital to the City's 13 economy and the citizens it serves and employs. It 14 is an industry that has learned to live with an 15 existing law, allowing it to accommodate with 16 hospitality, both non-smokers and those who do 17 choose to smoke. 18 Please take a long, close and careful 19 look at this proposal. And as we asked the last time 20 we sat before you on this issue, please help us, 21 don't hurt us. The present law has worked, let it 22 continue to do so. 23 Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 25 MR. COOK: Good morning, distinguished Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 52 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 members. 3 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Good morning. 4 MR. COOK: I am Jack Cook, I am the 5 President of the United Restaurant Liquor Dealers of 6 Manhattan, Inc. We are an association of restaurant 7 and tavern owners licensed to serve alcoholic 8 beverages on the premise. 9 Formed over 63 years ago, we serve as 10 an information conduit between our members and the 11 many governmental agencies that oversee our unique 12 industry. 13 Our industry is the largest employer 14 in the state. Additionally, we are the largest 15 collector of sales tax revenue in the City and 16 State. Ours is an industry that is composed largely 17 of immigrants and staffing and ownership, ours is 18 the only industry where an immigrant can start at 19 the entry level and through hard work and 20 perseverance own his or her own establishment. The 21 only certification needed is from the Board of 22 Health, no college degree required to advance 23 ownership. 24 Millions of dollars have been spent 25 by our industry to comply with the Smoke Free Air Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 53 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Act of 1995. Older establishments have gone to great 3 lengths and expense to renovate their existing 4 restaurants to accommodate the smoker and non-smoker 5 alike. 6 New restaurants have incorporated the 7 latest technology from the design stage to the 8 finished construction. All of these millions have 9 been spent to comply with the 1995 law, it can be 10 argued that the air in our restaurants is cleaner 11 than the air on our streets. 12 If smoking is banned in restaurants, 13 what will become of the smoker? Will they 14 immediately leave upon completion of their entree, 15 thereby depriving the restaurant, the waiter and the 16 City the additional revenue, that their dessert or 17 an after dinner drink would provide? Or even worse, 18 will these smokers congregate on the street thereby 19 creating noise and sanitation complaints, which 20 would be directed to your already overworked staff 21 by community boards which are currently overwhelmed 22 performing their charter mandated functions. 23 This great international city has 24 thousands of smoke-free restaurants, ranging from 25 four star establishments to corner coffee shops. The Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 54 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 City counts upon the millions of visitors it 3 receives each year. These visitors cannot comprehend 4 our existing law in this issue. A further ban would 5 only worsen the situation. 6 The incongruity of this bill is that 7 it acknowledges that there are emerging technologies 8 which will further improve the quality of air in 9 restaurants. Common sense dictates that the 10 examination of new technologies be completed before 11 there is any change in the existing law; however, as 12 it stands, by the time this Commission reports back 13 to the Council, many of our restaurants will already 14 be on the ropes or out of business. 15 I strongly urge you to reconsider 16 this bill, and allow our industry to offer our 17 citizens the freedom of choice they currently enjoy. 18 Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 20 MS. EASTLICK: Good morning. 21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Good morning. 22 MS. EASTLICK: Thank you for the 23 opportunity to testify. My name is Kristen Eastlick 24 and I represent the American Beverage Institute. We 25 are a national association of major chain Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 55 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 restaurants. 3 My comments will be brief because 4 they do echo the two gentlemen before me. What I can 5 offer is a national perspective on what happens when 6 smoking bans are instituted in other cities. 7 We represent, like I said, 8 restaurants like Houstons and the Palm, and we do 9 have that ability to understand when other 10 localities have implemented bans what the actual 11 economic impact is. 12 I was struck by the promise of the 13 first speaker who suggested that every time you do 14 have another hearing like this, that the restaurant 15 industry says we just want to keep what we have. 16 Well, it is interesting that every time there is 17 another hearing, it is also prefaced by we just want 18 to extend the ban that already exists. 19 So, I just would like you to consider 20 that, that this operation of sort of, you know, 21 inching our way through these bans, it is possible 22 to maybe legislate smokers out of existence, perhaps 23 that is what you are trying to do. But you can't 24 legislate the restaurant operators' desire not to be 25 hospitable to his guests. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 56 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Like I said, I am here to offer the 3 national perspective, and I will tell you one thing. 4 The restaurant industry is very competitive, as I am 5 sure you can tell from your New York restaurants. 6 Consider this: Chain restaurants around the country 7 have these opportunities to ban restaurants all over 8 the place. They have to do it in many occasions. 9 If this were profitable, if this were 10 something that raised revenues, much like the 11 proposers of the ban are suggesting, don't you think 12 that all of the restaurants in our chains would have 13 done it by themselves? Don't you think they would do 14 this without legislation? 15 Everyone is looking for an edge. 16 Everyone is looking to get more people into their 17 restaurant. It's hard to argue that restaurant bans 18 are increasing business if the people at this table 19 are telling you our customers aren't asking for it. 20 We tried to understand this in 1998 21 when California instituted their smoking ban that 22 affected bars and taverns. 23 So, we commissioned a study that 24 looked at what happens to those restaurants I think 25 eight months after the ban went into effect. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 57 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 60 percent of those bar and tavern 3 owners experienced a decrease in business and that 4 decrease was 26 percent, that average decrease. 5 There were a few restaurants that 6 increased. Their increase was eight percent. I think 7 that that should show you a little bit of what the 8 environment is when we do continue to extend bans, 9 at that time California had already had a ban on 10 some smoking in restaurants. 11 Now, I understand that someone 12 mentioned that most of the cities out there talk -- 13 do consider sales tax. I know I looked at one study 14 recently that the sales tax that they considered was 15 on hotel rooms as well. So, when you consider sales 16 tax of places that are already allowed to smoke 17 versus the sales tax of restaurants where you can't, 18 I think the conclusions of those studies need to be 19 looked at a little bit more. You know, asking 20 restaurateurs what their experience is, perhaps 21 that's the only way you can have to really 22 understand the impact. 23 Now, we have also talked about the 24 impact on employees. Well, consider the impact on 25 employees when they have to take into account that Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 58 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 26 percent decrease in sales. The restaurant 3 operators maybe didn't go out of business, maybe 4 they didn't close their shops, but what if they 5 scheduled workers for less hours? What if those 6 workers then took home a little bit less pay every 7 day. 8 That is an impact that needs to be 9 considered as well, considering their health, 10 especially as Chuck mentioned, a lot of those 11 employees are wanting to work in the smoking 12 sections anyway. 13 Again, all I am offering is a little 14 bit of a national perspective on how this plays out, 15 and I would be glad to answer any questions. 16 I just want you to remember, though, 17 that what you have developed in New York does the 18 perfect situation of accommodating both sides, and 19 keeping that accommodation will allow you to answer 20 the questions of your employees and guests with 21 smoking problems, allows you to treat the 22 individuals who do have the want to smoke, who have 23 the desire to smoke, and the desire to work in a 24 smoking environment. 25 Thank you. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 59 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let me, before I 3 go into the questions of members, let me acknowledge 4 a member who is not a member of this Committee, but 5 has been at our meetings before, particularly with 6 this subject matter. I want to acknowledge the 7 presence of Council Member Kathryn Freed from 8 Manhattan. 9 Let me also before I call upon the 10 Speaker, and then I will call upon members, remind 11 members, and especially those who were not in the 12 room when I set the rules, questions will be, to 13 Council members, we will have two minutes within, 14 not only to get your question but to get your 15 answer, because we have a lot of people who are 16 going to testify, so we ask, and the speaker has 17 asked to cooperate with that two-minute rule. 18 Having said that, I want you to 19 understand that the only one that is exempt from 20 those rules is the next person I am calling, he is 21 my boss, the Speaker of the Council. 22 SPEAKER VALLONE: I assure you, I will 23 comply with the rules. 24 I want to thank Mr. Cook, and Mr. 25 Hunt, thank you very much for your statements. And Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 60 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Ms. Eastlick, I just want to make sure you 3 understand, I know your testimony was confined to 4 national situations, but you understand that bars 5 and taverns are exempt from this law? 6 MS. EASTLICK: Yes, I understand that. 7 And my expectation is that four or five years later 8 we will probably be asked to ban them as well. 9 SPEAKER VALLONE: I am sure you will 10 be back. 11 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Council Member 12 Oddo. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Thank you. 14 Mr. Hunt and Mr. Cook, you both 15 referred to the technology out there in terms of the 16 filtering technology. Have you provided this 17 Committee with any information that we can review in 18 terms of the technology? 19 MR. COOK: I have not, but I will. I 20 would be happy to. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Thank you. And I 22 would ask the Chair if you would be so kind to share 23 that with the rest of the members. One of the quotes 24 that you referenced was the idea of, well, what are 25 they going to regulate next, fat in our prime rib? Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 61 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 And this is an argument that we get constantly when 3 we discuss this. Is it going to be fat? Is it going 4 to be coffee next? Is it going to be alcohol? It's 5 the slippery slope argument, and the counter to that 6 is you can sit in your own home and eat all the fat, 7 drink all the coffee, drink all the alcohol, smoke 8 all the cigarettes you want, but when that 9 individual behavior impacts on others, i.e., drunk 10 and driving, the government acts. 11 So, the argument that we are starting 12 with cigarettes and we are going to proceed 13 somewhere down the line to coffee and to somebody 14 having a steak, preventing them from going to 15 McDonalds, I think is a disingenuous one. 16 You as an individual have a right to 17 do to your body or with your body anything you want. 18 But when it impacts others, that's when government 19 acts. And that is the genesis of the Speaker's 20 comments in this regard. 21 So, I think of all of the references, 22 that was one that we hear all the time, and I think 23 it is disingenuous. 24 That's an editorial. 25 My question is, with reference to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 62 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 your concern about tourism, and you said the 3 possibility of folks not coming to New York, are you 4 saying that folks are going to go to Rome and Venice 5 instead of coming to New York? Or are you saying 6 they are going to go to Weehawken and Hartford 7 because they are not going to come to New York 8 because they can't smoke in restaurants? 9 MR. HUNT: Well, certainly it is not 10 in the spirit of hospitality to tell people that are 11 used to smoking that they cannot smoke within the 12 confines of a restaurant. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: So, folks who 14 are going to come here for the Empire State 15 building, for the culture, for the Broadway -- 16 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Council member, 17 you asked your question, he is responding. I believe 18 he answered it, whether you agree or disagree, there 19 is a two-minute rule, the buzzer rang. 20 Council Member Reed. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER REED: Thank you, Mr. 22 Chair. 23 Mr. Hunt, in your testimony you were 24 telling us about the survey, and it looked to me 25 that the survey, I guess this is the survey you were Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 63 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 talking about, right? 3 MR. HUNT: Yes. 4 COUNCIL MEMBER REED: So, this survey 5 was of the restaurant owners? 6 MR. HUNT: I sent it out to our 7 restaurant members. 8 COUNCIL MEMBER REED: So the question 9 of, have a number of your employees complained about 10 the workplace, I think you only had about 14 percent 11 or something, actually only nine percent, 85 percent 12 said no. 13 Do you know of any survey where the 14 workers themselves were surveyed and the responses 15 were anonymous? 16 MR. HUNT: No. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER REED: Do you think the 18 number would change if you asked the people who 19 actually had to work in that environment? 20 MR. HUNT: Possibly. I don't know. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER REED: The last area I 22 am looking at, have we looked at with all of this, 23 this new technology that you are going to bring us 24 some information about, about possibly the 25 government providing assistance in terms of low Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 64 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 interest loans and a lot of the programs we have up 3 in the empowerment zones, et cetera, for small 4 businesses that perhaps would offset what I think 5 perhaps could be harsh increase in cost and expense, 6 I know many of the people have just finally complied 7 with 1995 law and their sense is that now they have 8 to go spend another $100,000. 9 Have you looked at exploring that as 10 a concept that the government could offset some of 11 that hardship? 12 MR. HUNT: I think that's a wonderful 13 idea and I commend you for it. 14 I have not personally looked into 15 that but I certainly will. 16 COUNCIL MEMBER REED: Thank you very 17 much. 18 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you, 20 Council Member. 21 Council Member Quinn. 22 COUNCIL MEMBER QUINN: Thank you. 23 I have a question as it relates to 24 the technology issues, though I know you are going 25 to get us more information. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 65 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 I met with someone else from your 3 association, and they pointed out was, as with most 4 technology, ever expanding and getting better and 5 better. Is it your sense that with the technology we 6 have to date we are at the best place we are going 7 to be? Are we a year, two years away from some other 8 type of filtering that is going to be so much better 9 we are going to call you all back in two years and 10 say, you know, look, we are sorry but this is so 11 great, you know, we want you to put in this filter? 12 Do you know kind of where the research is at 13 regarding that? 14 MR. HUNT: I think we are pretty far 15 down the road. I met with someone in my office about 16 a week ago who illustrated some equipment they have 17 that is actually similar to that used in hospitals 18 that takes everything out of the air. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER QUINN: Now, is that 20 type of the installation or whatever that type of 21 technology, is that compatible with the type of 22 alterations, et cetera, that people had to make to 23 comply with the '95 laws? 24 MR. HUNT: Actually, it is probably 25 less expensive. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 66 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 It doesn't involve constructing 3 walls, it doesn't involve -- at least some of it. 4 COUNCIL MEMBER QUINN: Okay. 5 MR. HUNT: It doesn't involve the duct 6 work or anything like that. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER QUINN: What we made 8 you do in '95 wouldn't make it impossible to put 9 this in, or anything like that? 10 MR. HUNT: No, absolutely not. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER QUINN: Okay, thank 12 you. 13 MR. HUNT: Mr. Speaker, or Mr. 14 Chairman, if I could just take the last 27 seconds 15 of our two minutes, I would like to respond to the 16 comment about the fact that are we saying just leave 17 things alone. I think that is what the dog would 18 say, its getting its tail cut off one inch at a 19 time. 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 21 Council Member Freed. 22 COUNCIL MEMBER FREED: Thank you, Mr. 23 Chair. 24 I just want to tell you the effect 25 that tobacco has had in my life. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 67 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Both of my parents were two pack a 3 day smokers. As a child I had every respiratory 4 illness you could think of and I had numerous bouts 5 with pneumonia. 6 My mother contracted breast cancer 7 before she was 47, she died before she was 50, I am 8 sure tobacco was partially responsible for that. 9 My father had his first heart attack 10 before he was 50. After that he had ongoing smokers' 11 cough. By the time he was diagnosed with lung 12 cancer, one of his lungs was gone and two-thirds of 13 the other one. He wasted away over a nine-month 14 period. 15 Now, I understand about talking about 16 bottom lines and your profits, but I have to tell 17 you that anything that I could do, and I believe it 18 is only right to do what anyone can do to try and 19 cut back on the devastation that tobacco causes on 20 lives, I also do not believe that anyone who smokes 21 really believes that they are going to die from 22 smoking, but I will tell you they will die from 23 smoking. And I believe that we should, and it is our 24 responsibility as elected officials here to do 25 whatever we can to cut back on the ravages of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 68 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 tobacco. 3 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 4 much. 5 Let me, because I did say that after 6 the two panels, I still see one elected official, 7 and of course I will call upon the distinguished 8 chairperson of the Assembly's Health Committee of 9 the State Assembly, the honorable Richard Gottfried, 10 who represents the 64th Assembly District in 11 Manhattan. 12 ASSEMBLYMAN GOTTFRIED: Good morning. 13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Good morning. 14 ASSEMBLYMAN GOTTFRIED: I am Assembly 15 Member Richard Gottfried. I chair the Assembly 16 Committee on Health and I represent Chelsea, 17 Clinton, Midtown, part of the Upper West Side and 18 Murray Hill, an area that probably has more 19 restaurants than just about any place else on earth. 20 And I am grateful to the New York 21 City Council for having this hearing, and also to 22 Speaker Vallone for his leadership on this issue. 23 I have been proud to see our City 24 Council, the Speaker and the Health Committee in the 25 forefront of the effort to assure that all New Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 69 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Yorkers, and especially all workers are protected. 3 New York's Smoke Free Air Act has 4 been a great step forward, but it can be and it 5 should be strengthened. 6 I think it is important to remember 7 that the annual death toll from tobacco in this 8 country is the equivalent of a 747 airliner falling 9 out of the sky once every eight hours, three a day. 10 All restaurants, bars and night 11 clubs, even those with less than 35 seats, ought to 12 be smoke free. Tobacco fumes are most dangerous in 13 small places, and waiters and bartenders should not 14 be forced to accept a higher risk of lung cancer. 15 Including all establishments, would 16 protect them, would level the playing field, and 17 would make enforcement simpler. 18 There would be no need to verify 19 ventilation systems or haggle over restaurant 20 seating capacity. 21 In addition to the outdoor seating 22 areas of restaurants should not be exempted from the 23 act. Although current law requires 75 percent of 24 outdoor seats to be in a smoke-free section, this 25 part of the law is often ignored. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 70 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Smoke floats as freely outside as it 3 does indoors, and waiters and customers should not 4 be subjected to these dangerous fumes, just because 5 they work or choose to sit outdoors. 6 All private offices should be 7 smoke-free. Private offices are often used or 8 visited by people other than the individual who 9 works in the room. In addition, tobacco smoke from 10 one office leaks out to others and is also 11 recirculated by ventilation systems. 12 To protect people from having to 13 breathe secondhand smoke, smoking in an office 14 building should be restricted to separately enclosed 15 and separately ventilated smoking rooms that only 16 smokers have to enter. 17 Because many building entrances have 18 overhangs, the trap smoke building entrances are no 19 substitute for separately enclosed and ventilated 20 smoking rooms. 21 Smoking in a building entrance is 22 particularly noxious and should be prohibited by a 23 strengthened act. 24 All of the areas within a bowling 25 alley should be no smoking. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 71 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Current law makes the ridiculous 3 distinction between the area in front of and behind 4 the seatee area. 5 Finally, I am concerned about the 6 notion of creating a task force to look at how new 7 ventilation and air filtration techniques may impact 8 on the smoke-free air act. 9 It is an unwarranted and even 10 dangerous capitulation to the tobacco industry. 11 Unwarranted because there is no hard science showing 12 that such systems adequately remove harmful 13 tobacco-related carcinogens from the air. 14 Dangerous, because the tobacco 15 industry will use this task force to try to roll 16 back the original smoke-free air act by falsely 17 claiming that filtration or ventilation makes a 18 difference. And dangerous, because at the state 19 level and in other communities the tobacco industry 20 will site merely the formation of such a task force 21 as an argument for stalling efforts to strengthen 22 laws. 23 I urge you, therefore, to take out 24 this provision. 25 We are gaining ground. We are gaining Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 72 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 the upper hand in the fight against tobacco. We must 3 use these victories as a spring board for further 4 actions against smoke-related illness and death and 5 to protect all New Yorkers, as I said, and 6 especially all workers. 7 Thank you very much. 8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Richard, let me 9 personally thank you for taking the time to come. Of 10 course, never knowing that one day you and I will be 11 again colleagues in our respective committees on 12 health, but I was honored to serve with you when I 13 was in the assembly and I look forward to a 14 continuing relationship between your committee and 15 my committee while I am in the Council. So, thank 16 you again. 17 ASSEMBLYMAN GOTTFRIED: Always a 18 pleasure to work with you. Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Before we go back 20 to calling panels again, let me just, for the 21 Sergeant-At-Arms and people in the room, for those 22 of us who are here trying to listen to the 23 testimony, it is very distracting when you have 24 these conversations within the Chambers. 25 Sergeant-At-Arms, any discussion, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 73 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 bring it outside, please. Sergeant-At-Arms, let's 3 not have discussion in the Chamber, because it does 4 distract us from listening. And as the same way we 5 give courtesy to everybody, I think we should all 6 understand, whether we agree or disagree, that you 7 come here to testify, you want us to hear it but you 8 are not having none by having your little 9 discussions. 10 So, any discussions, 11 Sergeant-At-Arms, let them take them outside. 12 Let's go on to the next panel. 13 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Tom McMahon, 14 New York City Partnership. Richard Christie, Greater 15 New York Restaurant and Liquor Dealers Association. 16 Alfred Placeres, New York State Federation of 17 Hispanic Chambers of Commerce. 18 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Once again, folks 19 -- didn't you call three names out? 20 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Yes. 21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Where is the 22 third person? I see Tom. Where is the third person? 23 Call it again. 24 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Alfred 25 Placeres. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 74 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay, fine. 3 Why don't you identify yourselves for 4 the record and just proceed with your testimony. And 5 use the mike, because we need you to use the mike, 6 sir. 7 MR. McMAHON: Good afternoon. My name 8 is Thomas McMahon. I am here representing the New 9 York City Partnership, and I have a brief statement 10 I would like to read into the record and answer any 11 questions that you might have. 12 The Partnership is the leading 13 business organization in New York City, and 14 historically the Partnership has worked closely with 15 the Administration to provide a healthy climate for 16 businesses in which the business can thrive and 17 expand. 18 So, for example, last fall we 19 testified before the Mayoral Task Force on the 20 Buildings Department, at which time we urged that 21 the agency be used to improve customer service and 22 streamline its regulatory framework. With that same 23 philosophy in mind, we are now urging the City 24 Council not to act hastily by adopting Intro. 865. 25 Under the leadership of Speaker Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 75 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Vallone and Mayor Giuliani, the City has adopted 3 policies that have created an atmosphere where the 4 economy has enjoyed unprecedented growth. With a 5 proper mix of tax cuts, thoughtful economic 6 development incentives a streamlined regulatory 7 bureaucracy, the City has sent the message that New 8 York City is indeed the business capital of the 9 world. 10 The City's measured self-restraint in 11 over-regulating of businesses, business practices, 12 underlie those policies. We believe that a balanced 13 approach between intervention and self-restraint has 14 worked. 15 However, with Intro. 865, we believe 16 the Council is shifting from that balanced approach 17 towards over-regulation of the marketplace, which 18 could become especially hard for small businesses to 19 bear. 20 According to New York City and 21 Company, last year 37 million visitors came to New 22 York City generating $23 billion in revenues for the 23 City economy, and either directly or indirectly, 24 approximately 277,000 city jobs. 25 We believe that many of the City's Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 76 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 small business, mainly the mom and pop delis, small 3 cafes, restaurants and bars have thrived in this 4 healthy economy and with strong levels of tourism. 5 However, as you can imagine, 6 operating and managing a small business in New York 7 City is a challenging proposition. Requiring 8 businesses now to adhere to more regulations will 9 make it even harder for them to sustain their 10 operations, and with the economy in the United 11 States and around the world slowing, and potentially 12 tourism tapering off, we believe the impact to these 13 businesses from this legislation could be severe. 14 We applaud the City Council's 15 commitment to protect the public health. We fully 16 appreciate what the Council is trying to do in 17 curtailing the effects of secondhand smoke. 18 We also believe that you have 19 successfully fulfilled your government mandate by 20 enacting the Smoke Free Act in 1995, and that that 21 law achieved a balance between public health 22 concerns and the regulation of small businesses. 23 We respectfully urge you not to tip 24 that delicate balance. 25 Finally, we wish to make one Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 77 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 substantive comment regarding legislation. Intro. 3 865 calls for the creation of a temporary secondhand 4 air quality, smoke air quality task force. It is our 5 understanding that this task force will be charged 6 with examining the impact of secondhand smoke since 7 the Smoke Free Air Act has been in place, as well as 8 reporting on the new technologies that are and will 9 be available to filter out secondhand smoke in 10 closed areas. We feel that creating the task force 11 should be the first step before the Council acts to 12 amend the current law. 13 Thank you for this opportunity. 14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 15 Sir. 16 MR. CHRISTIE: Good morning. My name 17 is Richard Christie. I am President of the Greater 18 New York Restaurant Liquor Dealers Association. 19 In 1995, Speaker Vallone made the 20 following statement, and I quote, "I will never hurt 21 the restaurant industry and this bill will never go 22 any further." 23 I sincerely believe that it is not 24 his or the Council's intention to hurt our industry, 25 however, here we are in 2001, and much of what we Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 78 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 hear is how well the smoking ban is working in 3 California. I will let you be the judge. 4 Looking at the period from 1994 to 5 1999 in California, the overall economy taxable 6 sales statewide increased by an incredible 31.9 7 percent. 8 Looking at the sales for fastfood and 9 restaurant and bars, we found that they increased 10 also. With fastfood sales outpacing the overall 11 figure at 38.4 while the restaurant bar sales were 12 below the overall economy figures at 28.6. 13 However, the clincher, and what the 14 media and anti-smoking industry does not tell you, 15 is that the number of fastfood permits rose by 12.7 16 percent, whereas, the number of restaurant bars 17 decreased by 3.3 percent, which means that there 18 were 1,039 fewer restaurants and bars in California. 19 In other words, during a period in 20 which we saw a tremendous increase in the overall 21 economy, 1,039 restaurant and/or bars went out of 22 business. This is the real impact of the smoking 23 ban. These statistics are quoted by the State Board 24 of Equalization in California. Needless to say, our 25 industry is facing the real possibility of being put Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 79 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 out of business by unfair and unnecessary 3 legislation. 4 The Clean Air Act of 1995 is working 5 fine. It allows us to accommodate to issues of all 6 of the public. A recent telephone survey of New York 7 City restaurants and bars, excluding Manhattan, 8 which shows there are less than 1,000 restaurant 9 bars that still permit smoking in their 10 establishments, which represents approximately five 11 percent in the four boroughs. 12 The real truth is that those who 13 object to secondhand smoke have many more choices of 14 where to dine smoke free than they did in 1995. 15 Enough is enough. How many times will 16 you come back to the drawing table before you 17 realize you are contributing towards putting 18 restaurant bars and their families out of business? 19 Once again, if you are really 20 interested in eliminating smoking, and I believe you 21 are, my opinion is you should be going after the 22 foreigners and restricted from coming into the 23 country, rather than punishing our industry. 24 Thank you. 25 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 80 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 We have been joined by a member of 3 the Committee, Council Member Leffler, who also 4 asked to be recognized for a question. 5 Council Member, there is a rule for 6 each member to ask a question of two minutes, so you 7 have to get your question in and answer within that 8 two minutes. 9 Council Member Leffler. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER LEFFLER: Why does it 11 make sense to put a price on health and safety? If 12 you believe that the existing legislation has served 13 a useful function in protecting the public, then why 14 not extend that protection to people who work in the 15 areas that are affected, and to patrons who are 16 nearby and who absorb secondhand smoke? 17 MR. CHRISTIE: I believe we have, sir. 18 I believe there are over licensees in 19 the four boroughs that have smoke-free places 20 available to them, if that is where they decide to 21 go. We are not advocating smoking, we never have. We 22 don't disagree with your findings on smoking. What 23 we are saying is give the public the choice of going 24 where they want. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER LEFFLER: I see. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 81 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 And your feeling is that the people 3 who work, for example, in those premises where there 4 is smoking, they have the choice of just going 5 elsewhere if they think it is harmful to them; is 6 that your point? 7 MR. CHRISTIE: I believe they have the 8 same opportunity that I have, that you have and that 9 everybody else has, and if they want to work or eat 10 in a smoke-free environment, then that is what they 11 should do. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER LEFFLER: I see. I 13 understand your point. Thank you. 14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 15 much. 16 Council Member Michels. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: I just wanted 18 to follow up on some of the questions just asked; 19 and that is, it is not a question of an 20 individuality. There is a societal cost to the 21 sickness and the health problems that are caused as 22 a result of smoking, which have been recognized 23 throughout the country. That is why the huge 24 settlement, and why money is being distributed to 25 the various states in order to give money to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 82 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 hospitals and other medical facilities to take care 3 of people who have been sick to compensate the money 4 the state has put out. Because not only the 5 individual has to pay money for the health costs 6 here, but the society itself, the government, the 7 states, the cities, so don't you think that that is 8 a cost and something that should be considered in 9 determining whether or not we should continue 10 allowing people to smoke in areas where they 11 shouldn't be smoking? 12 MR. McMAHON: Mr. Chairman, as we 13 stated in our testimony we believe it's a balance. 14 There are societal costs for many things that are 15 legal in our society, whether it's consumption of 16 wine, or one might argue certain types of food, and 17 what we believe -- 18 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: Are you 19 equating food and wine with smoking? 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Council member, 21 you asked the question, let him answer the question, 22 and then you can come back with your two minutes. 23 MR. McMAHON: I would think an abuse 24 of wine, an overuse of wine, could have a serious 25 health affect on someone as secondhand smoke, and Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 83 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 what we are saying is that what is appropriate is a 3 balance, and a government often makes choices and is 4 in the position to make those choices over what the 5 appropriate balance is, and we think that with the 6 very comprehensive and aggressive legislation that 7 you passed in 1995, we have struck a very good 8 balance, and that we believe going further now is 9 not justified. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: As a former 11 Finance officer of this Council and somebody who 12 knows numbers very well, have you ever done a study 13 as to the costs, the health costs resulting from 14 sickness and death from smoking as opposed to wine 15 and food? Has there ever been a study made? 16 MR. McMAHON: Not that I know of. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: And nobody 18 has ever asked for that kind of study. So, what we 19 are doing is mere speculation. 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you, 21 Council Member. 22 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: Thank you 23 very much. 24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Council Member 25 Freed. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 84 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 COUNCIL MEMBER FREED: Thank you. 3 Again, you know, when we talk about 4 people who are working in, currently in smoke-filled 5 atmospheres, they really don't have -- well, they 6 have a choice. They have a choice between earning a 7 living and paying their bills and eating, or not 8 working in a smoke-filled environment. It isn't 9 enough that they can walk out of it, it is very 10 clear that tobacco kills and tobacco has devastating 11 affects on the human body. I don't think that we 12 would be sitting up here saying that we would allow 13 a certain individual a certain amount of money to go 14 out and poison a certain amount of people. We just 15 wouldn't do that, and it is shortsighted to deny the 16 impacts that tobacco has. 17 And following up on Council Member 18 Michels' question, the health impacts of tobacco are 19 largely picked up by the taxpayers in this City when 20 particularly people cannot pay for them go into the 21 hospital, and I, for one, do not want to subsidize 22 any employers' use of tobacco, because if we are 23 paying the devastating health consequences of people 24 who smoke, then we are subsidizing people's rights 25 or people's use of tobacco. And I, quite frankly, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 85 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 don't want to do that. 3 MR. CHRISTIE: Council Member, once 4 again I totally agree with you. I am not advocating 5 smoking, I never have. But, again, we are not 6 responsible for bringing tobacco into this country. 7 The federal government legalizes it and that is the 8 place where it should be started and that would 9 certainly be ridden from every place if we stopped 10 it from coming into the country. But then again, we 11 would lose a few dollars in taxes if we did that, 12 too. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER FREED: Well, I agree 14 with you, except I think a lot of our tobacco is 15 grown here and we tend to export it to the rest of 16 the world. 17 I don't know if you notice, but a lot 18 of other countries are now doing what we are doing. 19 We are in the forefront of that. Just in today's 20 paper, the fact that Ireland is making it tougher to 21 smoke, and they are putting more prohibitions on use 22 of tobacco, sooner or later the world will get where 23 we are going today, and sooner or later we will ban 24 tobacco. It's a matter of time. 25 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay, seeing no Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 86 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 other members, thank you very much. 3 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Dr. Neil 4 Schachter, American Lung Association of New York. 5 Dr. Jonathan Halperin, American Heart Association. 6 Dr. Dileep Bal, American Cancer Society. 7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let's proceed. 8 DR. BAL: Chairman Robles, City 9 Council members, ladies and gentlemen, I am Dr. 10 Dileep G. Bal, National President of the American 11 Cancer Society. It is of great pleasure that I have 12 accepted your invitation to speak to the new 13 legislation being introduced by City Council Speaker 14 Peter Vallone, and come all the way from California 15 to testify. 16 On a personal note, let me begin by 17 expressing my strong fondness of New York City. Like 18 many immigrants over the years this was the gateway 19 whereby I entered the United States, actually in the 20 late sixties when I came here as a graduate student 21 to Columbia University. Ever since then New York 22 City has always held a special place in my heart. 23 And I remember very well why, because only New York 24 City can you be upstaged at a City Council hearing 25 by an opera singer, and rightly so. She made a more Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 87 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 eloquent statement for what one's vocal chords, what 3 happens to one's vocal chords with secondhand smoke 4 than anything a couple of other physicians and I 5 could say. 6 Again, I am speaking for the American 7 Cancer Society, and I had a little spiel to tell you 8 what the Cancer Society was, but in the interest of 9 time I am going to dispense with that. You all know 10 what the American Cancer Society is and the role it 11 plays in the United States, and one of our former 12 distinguished presidents, Harold Friedman, was 13 referenced by several of your Council members. 14 The American Cancer Society estimates 15 that 172,000 cancer deaths will be caused by tobacco 16 use every year. Secondhand smoke is the third 17 leading cause of preventable death in the United 18 States, killing approximately 53,000 non-smokers 19 each year. 20 For every eight smokers the tobacco 21 industry kills, they take one non-smoker with them. 22 The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has 23 classified secondhand smoke as a group A carcinogen, 24 a substance known to cause cancer in humans. 25 There is no safe level of exposure Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 88 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 for group A toxins. Smoke from the burning tip of a 3 cigarette has 20 times the carcinogens as the direct 4 smoke inhaled by a smoker. Women regularly exposed 5 to secondhand smoke have doubled the risk of heart 6 disease. 7 Again, I want to emphasize that when 8 my colleagues and I cite data such as this, we are 9 not citing something that our cousin Guido told us 10 in the hallway outside. These are all peer reviewed 11 studies with citations attached for your convenience 12 in the testimony we have all submitted. 13 Let me begin specifically, Mr. 14 Chairman, with some selected secondhand smoke facts, 15 especially from California where I am from. Soon 16 after passage of proposition '99, California's 17 legendary 1989 Tobacco Tax Initiative, there was 18 only one smoke-free ordinance in California. By 1995 19 there were 286. That is the same year we passed a 20 statewide smoke-free work site law. 21 According to a study published in 22 JAMA, environmental tobacco smoke is a significant 23 health hazard to food service workers, to protect 24 these smokers smoking in bars and restaurant should 25 be prohibited. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 89 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 If you are in a smoky bar for only 3 two hours, it is the same as smoking four 4 cigarettes, or to put it another way, working a 5 shift in a smoky bar is the equivalent to actively 6 smoking a full package of cigarettes every day. 7 Two further studies will find that 8 food service workers face a 50 percent excess risk 9 of lung cancer that is most likely attributable to 10 their secondhand smoke exposure. 11 A study of San Francisco bartenders 12 before and after California prohibited smoking in 13 all bars, in January 1998, found a decrease in 14 respirator symptoms four weeks after the smoking ban 15 went into affect. 16 I want to emphasize that California, 17 like New York, has a racially diverse population, 18 and the experiences there, I think are clearly 19 extrapolatable to New York City. 20 As to how people feel about some of 21 our bans of smoking in restaurants, among smokers 83 22 percent feel employees should be protected, and 77 23 percent say employers should protect customers from 24 secondhand smoke. 25 These are huge numbers from smokers, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 90 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Mr. Chairman. 3 Following the implementation of 4 California Statewide Clean Indoor Air legislation in 5 public places, 95 percent of all non-smokers, 69 6 percent of all smokers reported that this change was 7 positive. More than half of all working smokers 8 reported smoking less because of the State's Clean 9 Indoor Air law. That's a very key point, it helps 10 people to smoke less. 11 California's Statewide Clean Indoor 12 Air law had no negative impact on the restaurant 13 business. Ninety-three percent of Californians 14 reported that they were just as likely, if not more 15 so, to eat in restaurants and cafeterias as they 16 were before the law went into effect. 17 Economic impact very well documented 18 nonexistence. If anything, there have been huge 19 increases is restaurant revenues. 20 Similarly, smoke-free restaurant 21 ordinances had no effect on restaurant sales in 15 22 cities in California and Colorado in rural, urban 23 and suburban settings. 24 A detailed economic analysis in San 25 Luis Obispo in California found there was no Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 91 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 evidence of economic impact, again. In fact, 3 furthermore, and this is a key issue, sales in 4 neighboring cities did not increase when the 5 ordinance was instituted in the City of San Luis 6 Obispo. Thus, any suggestion of a mass exodus by New 7 York diners across the Hudson to New Jersey is 8 clearly a tobacco industry scare tactic worthy of 9 the Sopranos. 10 Again, to reiterate, emphasize and 11 summarize some of the points I have made: Policies 12 prohibiting smoking at the worksite and in public 13 places are a population-based strategy to promote 14 tobacco cessation. 15 Multiple studies indicate that as a 16 result of these policies, the number of cigarette 17 smoke per day decreases, a decrease that is still 18 observable 12 to 18 months after the implementation 19 of such a change. Even an internal tobacco industry 20 study suggested that smokers in the smoke-free 21 workplace quit at a rate that is 84 percent higher 22 than smokers who work at a location where smoking is 23 allowed. 24 Next, I would like to briefly 25 describe California's Assembly Bill 13 of the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 92 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Friedman bill, as it was then called. AB 13 was 3 passed by the California Legislature in 1994, and 4 was implemented in 1995. It prohibited smoking in 5 most enclosed workplaces with a few exceptions. 6 Ironically, proposition 188, a Philip 7 Morris backed initiative initiative, would have 8 rolled back the provisions of AB 13 even before it 9 was implemented. The initiative was resoundingly 10 defeated by 71 percent to 29 percent. 11 Love the next statement. It's from 12 former Assemblyman Brett Granlund, who, before he 13 left the California Legislature in November, 14 championed several efforts to keep smoking legal in 15 bars, and this is what Brett Granlund had to say 16 about the issue recently: 17 "The law is the law and there have 18 been many efforts to change it but it appears to me 19 that the fight is over. It's just something that 20 smokers have to get used to." 21 Coming briefly to the ventilation 22 issue, there is a scientific consensus that 23 environmental tobacco smoke is a known cause of 24 cancers. To question it at this point in time is 25 absurd. It causes cancer, cardiovascular disease and Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 93 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 respiratory diseases, period. 3 Secondhand smoke contains five 4 regulated hazardous air pollutants; 47 regulated 5 hazardous wastes; 60 known or suspected carcinogens; 6 and more than 100 chemical poisons. 7 Smoking bans are the only viable 8 control measure to ensure that workers and patrons 9 are protected from exposure to the toxic wastes from 10 tobacco consumption. 11 It is my recommendations that 12 provisions to permit smoking of offices or public 13 places which shared ventilation standards be 14 removed, as they only give the perception of doing 15 something. 16 Additionally, rather than convene 17 another panel of ventilation experts, it seems 18 prudent to accept early work of OSHA. In addition to 19 the protection of non-smokers afforded by meaningful 20 clean indoor air policies, the cessation effect of 21 these policies can never be underestimated. 22 Mr. Chairman, what does this all mean 23 in summary? 24 Well, basically it comes down to 25 this: Overall, this is a progressive addition to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 94 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 your 1995 law; however, I personally am deeply 3 troubled by the creation of a commission with broad 4 paths to legislate changes to even the original law. 5 This Council, in my view, must never 6 abdicate its legislative prerogatives to another 7 especially unelected body. This coupled with the 8 implication that there is promising new ventilation 9 technology on the Horizon, makes it a veritable 10 Trojan horse that the tobacco industry has cleverly 11 inserted into similar pieces of legislation 12 throughout the nation. 13 In fact, it is distressingly similar 14 to the Philip Morris Options Program and could very 15 well turn out to be a poison pill provision of sorts 16 in your bill, as your Assembly Health Committee 17 Chairman spoke to, Mr. Chairman. 18 Personally, I have grave reservations 19 indeed about any assertion that this problem is 20 amenable to a technological quick fix with advances 21 in indoor air ventilation technology. 22 My friend Jim Ropase is going to 23 speak about that soon, and he will put pay to that 24 argument very rapidly. 25 Finally, I again thank you for your Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 95 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 invitation to have me testify today. Tobacco causes 3 nearly half a million deaths in the United States 4 every year, and the five major strategies, as you 5 know, to influence tobacco consumption are, 6 impacting youth uptake, exposing the tobacco 7 industry's nefarious efforts, direct cessation, and 8 the price elasticity effect on consumption when the 9 cost rises. Of these, you have it in your power 10 today to affect the fifth, namely environmental 11 tobacco smoke or secondhand smoke in New York City. 12 So let me just end with a quote from 13 my native India. Mahatma Gandhi once said, "If you 14 want to change the world be that change." I am 15 personally confident the New York City Council will 16 be just such an agent for change, and I am indeed 17 privileged, Mr. Chairman, to assist you in your 18 efforts. 19 Thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 21 much. 22 DR. SCHACHTER: Good morning, Chairman 23 Robles, members of the Health Committee, ladies and 24 gentlemen. My name is Dr. Neil Schachter, and I am 25 the past president of the American Lung Association Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 96 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 of New York, the Director of the Respiratory Care 3 Department at the Mount Sinai Hospital here in New 4 York City. 5 The American Lung Association of New 6 York, founded in 1902, is the oldest voluntary 7 health agency in this nation. For decades we have 8 helped lead the fight for tobacco control and clean 9 indoor air. 10 I would like to thank you for this 11 opportunity to speak today, and to voice the 12 American Lung Association of New York's support for 13 your proposal to amend the Smoke Free Air Act of 14 1995, which would make all restaurants entirely 15 smoke free and smoking in bar areas of restaurants 16 and restrict smoking in private offices to only 17 primary occupants. 18 The evidence that smoking kills is 19 overwhelming. An estimated 430,000 Americans die 20 each year from diseases related to cigarette 21 smoking. 22 About half of all cigarette smokers 23 will eventually be killed by their habits. But even 24 more astonishing is the number of people that suffer 25 needlessly as a result of their proximity to burning Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 97 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 cigarettes. 3 Secondhand smoke, smoke that is 4 involuntarily inhaled by non-smokers from other 5 people's cigarettes, can be lethal. The U.S. 6 Environmental Protection classifies environmental 7 tobacco smoke as a group A carcinogen, and we know 8 that each year secondhand smoke accounts for 9 approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths, 37,000 heart 10 disease deaths, and 13,000 deaths from other 11 cancers. 12 Let me do the math. This means that 13 approximately 50,000 Americans die each year as a 14 result of secondhand smoke. 15 These statistics alone are enough to 16 restrict exposure to secondhand smoke. But in truth, 17 the story extends far beyond these numbers. 18 Every person living with an existing 19 lung disease, like tuberculosis, chronic bronchitis 20 or emphysema and already suffering from reduced lung 21 capacity, cannot tolerate additional reduction in 22 lung function due to exposure to secondhand smoke. 23 For the 5.6 million New York City 24 residents who experience lung disease, the clouds of 25 secondhand smoke are life-threatening. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 98 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The health risk from secondhand smoke 3 is the greatest for children. As many as 300,000 4 lower respiratory infections, such as bronchitis and 5 pneumonia in young children are attributed to 6 secondhand smoke, and up to 2,700 infants die each 7 year from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome associated 8 with secondhand smoke. 9 Most importantly, in New York tobacco 10 smoke is a major asthma trigger. 11 New York City is in the grips of an 12 asthma epidemic. The City has the worst asthma rates 13 in the nation, nearly triple the national average, 14 more than half a million New York City residents 15 suffer from asthma. 16 The severity and the frequency of 17 asthma attacks increase with exposure to secondhand 18 smoke, and thousands are forced to seek medical 19 attention as a result of this exposure. 20 Tobacco smoke is linked with as many 21 as 26,000 new cases of asthma nationwide in 22 previously unaffected children. In New York City, it 23 exacerbates symptoms in 130,000 children already 24 diagnosed with asthma. 25 Some, especially in the industry, say Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 99 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 that this legislation will destroy small restaurant 3 business and mar New York City's ability to offer 4 diverse cuisine and dining experience. 5 Five year's worth of experience have 6 shown otherwise. 7 The restaurant industry has seen 8 unprecedented growth since 1995 Smoke Free Air Act 9 and the public has voiced its support for even 10 stricter smoking bans. 11 Under the current legislation, smoke 12 continues to pollute the air of our restaurants from 13 the bar area. Small restaurants do not serve the 14 health needs of non-smokers. 15 For people who have to work in these 16 restaurants, and for those working in offices where 17 smoking continues to be permitted, secondhand smoke 18 is a true occupational hazard. 19 A study of the Journal of the 20 National Cancer Institute, found that people who 21 work in smoke-contaminated workplaces were 17 22 percent more likely to develop lung cancer than 23 those who are not exposed. 24 This risk is preventable through 25 strict, clean indoor air legislation. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 100 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Each week I have to confront patients 3 and their families who are learning for the first 4 time that they are the victims of lung cancer or 5 some other crippling smoke-induced disease. For many 6 of these victims, hope is not an option. 7 We have an opportunity here today to 8 make an impact on the lives of New Yorkers before 9 they reach this point. On behalf of the Lung 10 Association of New York, I urge you to strengthen 11 the Smoke Free Air Act. 12 Thank you for the opportunity. 13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 14 Sir. 15 DR. HALPERIN: Good day, Mr. Chairman, 16 members of the Council, and distinguished guests. My 17 name is Dr. Jonathan Halperin, I am President of the 18 American Heart Association in New York City, and 19 Director of Cardiology Clinic Services at the Mt. 20 Sinai Medical Center. 21 I would like to thank you for the 22 opportunity to speak on behalf of the American Heart 23 Association in support of this initiative. 24 The American Heart Association is a 25 national not-for-profit organization funded by Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 101 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 private contributions and run by its more than 22 3 and a half million volunteers and supporters 4 nationwide. 5 It is the largest voluntary health 6 organization fighting to reduce death and disability 7 from cardiovascular disease, the nation's number one 8 killer. 9 In order to help achieve our mission, 10 the American Heart Association has set an aggressive 11 impact goal of reducing coronary heart disease and 12 stroke by 25 percent in the Year 2010. Your support 13 of this bill will help us achieve this goal and 14 improve the health of all New Yorkers. 15 As a cardiologist, I know firsthand 16 the damage environmental tobacco smoke, also 17 referred to as ETS, can cause. 18 The association of ETS with heart 19 disease derives from the adverse biological effects 20 of tobacco smoke on the cardiovascular system, 21 inhaled tobacco smoke causes blood vessels to 22 constrict, limiting blood flow and reducing oxygen 23 supply to vital tissues throughout the body. 24 It damages arteries, lowers levels of 25 the good HDL cholesterol and increases the risk of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 102 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 blood clotting. Those exposed to ETS are 82 percent 3 more likely to suffer a stroke, and even occasional 4 exposure to secondhand smoke increases the risk of 5 developing heart disease by over 50 percent. 6 Environmental tobacco smoke is a key 7 factor behind such grim statistics as the toll of 8 approximately 37,000 cardiovascular deaths each year 9 in this country. 10 In addition to this tragic loss of 11 human life, there is an economic price as well, 12 smoking-related illness costs Americans an estimated 13 $130 billion annually in acute and convalescent 14 medical care. 15 Both the United States Surgeon 16 General and the National Institute of Occupational 17 Safety and Health have found that simply separating 18 smokers in the workplace or in public places does 19 not provide adequate protection for non-smokers. 20 As an analogy, the air we breathe in 21 a restaurant can be compared to water in a swimming 22 pool, just as there is no way to have chlorinated 23 and non-chlorinated sections of a pool, everyone 24 dining or working in a restaurant is compelled to 25 inhale deadly secondhand smoke. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 103 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 In a survey of working non-smoking 3 American adults over age 17, nearly half reported 4 exposure to tobacco smoke at home or on the job. 5 Analyses of the air in more than 400 restaurants in 6 600 homes found that restaurant workers were exposed 7 to levels of secondhand smoke twice as high as 8 office workers and 1.5 times higher than persons who 9 reside with a smoker. 10 And for workers in bars, intake of 11 secondhand smoke was at least four times higher than 12 those in offices and homes. 13 You may hear arguments that it is a 14 person's right to smoke. I believe that that 15 argument would be correct, unless that person 16 exposes another to the harmful health effect of 17 environmental tobacco smoke. 18 The actions of one person cannot and 19 should not impede the right of another to remain 20 healthy. As a physician, I have seen my share of 21 victims whose right to health has been infringed 22 upon by the effects of other people's smoke. And 23 even those that have survived are paying the price. 24 A 1998 report in the Journal of 25 American Medical Association indicated that the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 104 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 effects of secondhand smoke and heart disease are 3 substantial, cumulative and often irreversible. 4 The American Heart Association 5 regards protection of the public from secondhand 6 smoke hazards as an integral part of a comprehensive 7 tobacco control policy. 8 The fact that the exposure 9 irreversibly accelerates the vascular disease 10 associated with high blood pressure and diabetes, 11 two leading causes of disability and mortality, 12 makes reducing secondhand smoke a high priority in 13 preventing the complications from these diseases. 14 The American Heart Association 15 believes that nobody should be exposed to 16 environmental tobacco smoke, particularly in the 17 course of their daily work. 18 The evidence supporting the adverse 19 effects of environmental tobacco smoke are argument 20 enough to pass Intro. 865 and address the daunting 21 health risks posed by exposure to secondhand smoke. 22 We urge you to respond to the 23 overwhelming data documenting the dangers of ETS to 24 protect the workers in and the visitors to and the 25 residents of our great City. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 105 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Thank you for your time and 3 consideration. 4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 5 MR. SCHOEN: Thank you. My name is 6 Douglas Schoen and I am a partner in the market 7 research firm of Penn, Schoen and Berland, and what 8 I thought I would do today was to summarize the 9 results of a survey that our firm did two years ago, 10 which follows quite nicely on the data that was 11 presented from California. 12 We interviewed 1,210 New York City 13 voters, in an election year it is probably worth 14 emphasizing that we are talking about voters, about 15 the impact of the 1994 law, and prospective changes 16 to the law going forward. 17 We found that, as in California, 18 patronage in restaurants is not going down, and, if 19 anything, it has probably gone up, and indeed our 20 conclusion was that the '94 Smoke Free law has had a 21 positive rather than a negative impact. 22 We asked people what the impact of 23 the '94 law was on their likelihood to go to 24 restaurants, we said, "did it make you more or less 25 likely to go?" We found that by 25 to 13 people said Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 106 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 that the law made them more likely rather than less 3 likely to go to restaurants. Sixty-two percent said 4 no effect, so that that would suggest a positive 5 impact. 6 Among smokers, it was even 18 more 7 likely, 17 less likely. Again, we are not seeing any 8 impact on smokers in a diminution of likely to go, 9 and among non-smokers, by 28 percent, 10 percent 10 that said they were more likely, rather than less 11 likely. 12 Anti-smoking sentiment in New York 13 City was solid in the polls, with strong support for 14 extending the law, and I should say, as I indicated 15 in an election year, strong support for a candidate 16 who supported such an expansion, and I understand 17 that in this year, everybody is particularly 18 sensitive to the electorate's concerns, our purpose 19 in asking these questions was not to suggest that 20 one would do this for political reasons, but rather 21 suggest that there would not be deleterious 22 political impact on somebody who supported the 23 science and did what was right, and we found by two 24 to one voters would support a candidate who 25 supported a smoke free law that banned smoking in Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 107 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 all public places. Especially if the candidate was a 3 leader on the issue. And when we tested specific 4 proposals on how one might expand the smoke free 5 law, over two-thirds supported expanding the law to 6 cover offices and restaurants that seat fewer than 7 35 people. 8 And then when we said would you be 9 more likely to vote for a candidate who supported an 10 all-encompassing smoking smoke-free law, by 57 to 29 11 voters said that they would be more likely, rather 12 than less likely, and by 52 to 26 or close to two to 13 one voters said that they prefer somebody who is a 14 leader on the issue to a quiet supporter. 15 As I suggested, we tested a series of 16 proposals on the issue, and said would you support 17 or propose those proposals. So, expanding the law to 18 cover offices was supported by 69 to 26. Restaurants 19 that seat 35 and fewer were supported by 67 to 25. 20 Bowling allies, 59 to 25, and an all-encompassing 21 smoking ban, 58 to 36. Bar areas of restaurants, 54 22 to 37. 23 I should also point out that there 24 was particular intensity. The strong support on 25 these matters was between 40 and 55 percent. So, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 108 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 those that care about the issue, car passionately. 3 When we, again, asked about 4 likelihood of supporting a candidate who supported 5 extending the ban to offices and restaurants and the 6 like, by better than two and a half to one, voters 7 were more likely rather than less likely to support 8 such a candidate. 9 So, it is not only I think good 10 health care and good public health, I think it is 11 also good politics. 12 And again, overall, in terms of 13 extending the ban to the workplace, we found that 14 support for such a candidate was strong with 61 15 percent saying that they were more likely to support 16 such a candidate and 22 percent saying that they 17 opposed such an initiative. 18 I also can tell you that their 19 support for expansion runs across the Board with a 20 majority of democrats, republicans and independents 21 supporting the all-encompassing. So, I think we are 22 in a situation where the science, the public policy 23 and the hard-headed politics all match up, and I 24 think that the experience in New York, the expected 25 experience, what I would expect, neatly meshes with Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 109 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 what we saw in the real world of California, and I 3 think that the doctor's suggestion is one that is a 4 good one and we can learn from the California 5 experience, and my survey suggests that the data 6 from New York suggests the experiences will be 7 replicable. 8 Thank you very much. 9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. Let me 10 just, before I call on my colleague, this poll, you 11 gave it out to whom? 12 MR. SCHOEN: It was a random survey of 13 1,200 New York City voters. 14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let me get to the 15 point. Would you provide this Committee with that 16 report so that we can share with members what is 17 reflected? 18 MR. SCHOEN: Absolutely. 19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: That's my point. 20 Council Member Michels, two minutes. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: Thank you 22 very much. 23 I am going to make two observations 24 and I have one question. 25 One observation is somebody who has Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 110 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 been here since 1978 and was involved in all of the 3 legislation, having to do it, it is interesting to 4 me that we have three distinguished doctors, and one 5 distinguished pollster in front of us. The 6 observation is that since the first legislation we 7 have never had a medical doctor testifying, that 8 there is nothing wrong with secondhand smoke or 9 regular smoking, and as a matter of fact when we 10 have hearings on the Clean Indoor Air Act, in the 11 late eighties, the only person that came to testify 12 in that regard was a zoologist. 13 So, I don't think there was any 14 question that the medical issue has been settled, 15 otherwise you can bet the tobacco industries or the 16 restaurant industries would have in front of us a 17 parade of medical doctors or scientists or somebody 18 who will try to dispute the findings. So, people may 19 dispute it, but they are not producing and nobody is 20 willing to hear about that. 21 The other thing, I would like to just 22 clear up your statement, Dr. Bal. 23 You should have no concern about this 24 creation's commission with respect to this 25 legislation, because you will not be able to do Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 111 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 legislation, you can only make recommendations, so 3 your concern is not there. 4 And, finally, I just wanted to ask 5 you a question, because you mentioned something that 6 I have said many times. 7 In your statement, Dr. Bal, you state 8 "smoke from the tip of a cigarette has 20 times the 9 carcinogens of smoke inhaled by a smoker" and you 10 cite the Center for Disease Control, 1996. Can you 11 explain why that is? Why it is 20 times more 12 carcinogens? 13 DR. BAL: They just measure it and 14 that is what it is. 15 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: But I thought 16 the explanation was that it is not filtered, number 17 one, that when you inhale, when the cigarette is 18 inhaled, it is burned to the higher temperature; is 19 that the reason why? 20 DR. BAL: I think you are arguably 21 informed in the subject than myself. Do either of 22 you gentlemen care to take that? 23 DR. SCHACHTER: I agree entirely with 24 what you have said, those are the explanations. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: I thought Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 112 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 they were, but nobody has -- I have been making it a 3 point for years, and people -- and I am glad to see 4 it is here and I am glad to see the CDC study. 5 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 6 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Council Member 7 Oddo. 8 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Stanley just 9 took my question. 10 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: But I have 12 another. 13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Oh, I see. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Dr. Bal, I 15 would ask if your cousin Guido is related to mine, 16 and since I only have two minutes, I will explore 17 that another time. 18 The question I was going to asked is 19 that very question, because I get asked that by 20 students at the schools I go to speak at against 21 tobacco and it is a question that invariably comes 22 up. 23 The only question that I have now 24 that Stanley stole my thunder is to you, Mr. Schoen, 25 and ask you, who hired you to undertake that study? Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 113 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 MR. SCHOEN: We were hired by the 3 Heart Association, the Cancer Society and the Lung 4 Association. 5 However, we were given an absolute 6 mandate to collect public opinion, as it was. There 7 was no sense or desire to skew questions. In fact, 8 we went out of our way and when the Committee is 9 provided with the data, I am confident you will 10 agree that we asked straightforward questions, are 11 you more likely or less likely to support, more 12 likely or less likely to vote, favor or oppose such 13 an ordinance that would limit smoking in bars with 14 less than 35 people. 15 So, we went out of our way to ask 16 balanced questions, a pure random sample of 1,200 17 voters, about as big a sample that gets done in 18 polls of this type. So, I feel very confident that 19 the data is not only representative but is high 20 quality and is high accuracy, about two or three 21 percent margin of error as gets done in the City. 22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 23 much, gentlemen. 24 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Joseph 25 Spinnato, Hotel Association of New York City. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 114 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Daniel Blaine, Danny Blaine's Bar and 3 Restaurant. 4 Charles Lopresto, Josepina 5 Restaurant. 6 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Joe. 7 MR. SPINNATO: Good morning, Mr. 8 Chairman. 9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Actually, good 10 afternoon. 11 MR. SPINNATO: Good afternoon, I am 12 sorry. 13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Identify yourself 14 for the record and proceed, sir. 15 MR. SPINNATO: Thank you, Mr. 16 Chairman. 17 My name is Joseph E. Spinnato. I am 18 President of the Hotel Association of New York City, 19 representing 183 hotels located within the City of 20 New York. 21 With regard to the Smoke Free Air 22 Act, Introduction Number 865, Mr. Chairman, the 23 members of the Hotel Association of New York City 24 feel that the existing limitations on smoking 25 imposed under the Smoke Free Air Act suffice. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 115 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Further stringency is unwarranted, 3 and will deter business to New York City hotels and 4 their restaurants and bars. 5 The Smoke Free Air Act is already 6 challenging to police and to enforce, especially 7 given the City's high percentage of foreign visitors 8 who smoke and who are unaccustomed to laws governing 9 smoking. 10 Our hotels are working diligently to 11 get foreign visitors to respect the rules of 12 non-smoking rooms and smoke free public places as it 13 is. 14 Parenthetically, Mr. Chairman, I just 15 returned from Rome. I was over there for a week, and 16 I was shocked at the ethic of smoking over there. It 17 is incredible how many people smoke in this day and 18 age, whether young, old, middle aged. And for those 19 of us who, for the past 20, 25 years have been used 20 to a somewhat smoke free air environment, to see 21 this degree of smoking and to be offended by it, 22 because they do it all around you, the restaurants 23 are not in any way policed, and it is incredible 24 that these people find our laws, they don't 25 understand them and they find them overly Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 116 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 restrictive. 3 I remind you, Mr. Chairman, that the 4 Hotel Association and the hotel industry supported 5 an amendment to the Smoke Free Air Act in 1998 that 6 permitted the placement of ash trays next to hotel 7 and motel elevators, and immediately adjacent to 8 public entrances to our hotels. 9 We felt that this would deter guests 10 who smoke in room, or out of doors and it would 11 prevent them from traveling through the properties 12 with lit cigarettes in their hands. 13 We also felt that it was a necessary 14 precaution against fire. 15 I would further point out to you, 16 sir, as we have indicated in prior testimony, that 17 our hotels have dramatically increased the number of 18 smoke-free hotel rooms in our properties. 19 New York City is indeed a unique 20 destination, and one defined by the diversity of its 21 population and also by its visitors. The volume of 22 visitors to New York City in 2000, according to the 23 research of New York City and Company, was 38.4 24 million guests. A great percentage of whom were 25 international. International visitors are typically Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 117 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 big spenders because they generally enjoy favorable 3 exchange rates that encourage them to buy while they 4 are here. 5 But as I have said to you a little 6 earlier, they also often smoke. We literally cannot 7 afford to repel them with laws that they don't 8 understand or embrace. 9 Our member hotels would suffer 10 greatly from both in economic and customer 11 satisfaction standpoint were smoking banned or 12 further restricted in public places. 13 Mr. Chairman, we most respectfully 14 advocate leaving the Smoke Free Air Act as it is, as 15 we believe that it is accomplishing that which is 16 intended to accomplish. 17 We commit to you, as well, that our 18 members will continue to do their best to enforce 19 the provisions of the current legislation. We would 20 have no objections, and in fact, we would support an 21 impartial task force to be created to examine all 22 aspects of how the Smoke Free Air Act is working. 23 Only after such a task force reported back to the 24 Council should any amendment to the Smoke Free Air 25 Act be considered. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 118 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Thank you. 3 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 4 Sir. 5 MR. BLAINE: Mr. Spinnato is a former 6 Fire Commissioner and I am a former Fire Lieutenant, 7 so we were just saying hello. 8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: And just to keep 9 the record straight, Mr. Spinnato, when he was Fire 10 Commissioner, made me an Honorary Battalion Chief 11 before he left, and now I am an Honorary Deputy 12 Commissioner in the Fire Department, so I thank him 13 for that too. 14 MR. SPINNATO: You are very welcome, 15 Mr. Robles. 16 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Now we have all 17 become a family. 18 MR. SPINNATO: Now you should become 19 an Honorary Commissioner. 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: All right, let's 21 go. Let's move on. 22 MR. BLAINE: All right, am I up? 23 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: All right. My 24 name is Danny Blaine, I am a retired New York City 25 Fire Lieutenant, and I have been a member of the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 119 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Staten Island Restaurant and Tavern Association 3 since 1979. 4 I am here to oppose the complete ban 5 on smoking in taverns and restaurants. 6 I am here to support the present law 7 which protects the rights of non-smokers, as well as 8 smokers, by restricting smoking to bar areas 9 prohibiting smoking in dining areas in restaurants 10 that have 35 seats or more. 11 Historically taverns have been 12 meeting places, where people of all backgrounds 13 gravitated, for food, drink, companionship and 14 discussion, a warmer friendly atmosphere where 15 smokers and non-smokers co-existed. This describes 16 my neighborhood tavern, Danny Blain's. 17 I own this small local tavern, where 18 the average age is middle age. I personally choose 19 not to smoke. I believe in the accommodation program 20 of which I am a member. A sign posted on my front 21 door reads, "Smokers and Non-Smokers Welcome", it's 22 your choice. 23 My customers are responsible adults 24 who work hard to support their families. My 25 customers are responsible adults who take car Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 120 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 service to and from my establishment because they do 3 not drink and drive. 4 Sixty percent of my customers smoke. 5 In order to open our doors each day, 6 we must deal with an unending list of rules, 7 regulations, permits, fees, taxes and bureaucracy. 8 As law-abiding business owners, we comply with the 9 demands of the Health Department for various permits 10 and inspections; the Department of Consumer Affairs 11 for permits; the Fire Department, various permits 12 and inspections which I am familiar; alcohol, 13 tobacco and firearms tax; liquor license fees. I 14 just would like to bring to light, this has nothing 15 to do with the smoking, but back in the eighties New 16 York City enacted a $300 additional yearly tax on 17 all liquor licenses because of the City's fiscal 18 crisis of the time. That tax was to be temporary. It 19 has been over 20 years and now the City surplus is 20 projected to be a billion dollars. 21 This is one example of why our 22 industry you often hear the terms overtaxed and 23 over-regulated. 24 This was supposed to be temporary, it 25 has turned out to be permanent. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 121 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The small business man who is 3 fighting to keep his doors open cannot afford to 4 lose even one customer. The present smoking law is 5 working. The non-smoker has been given the freedom 6 to dine smoke free in every restaurant that seats 7 over 35 people. 8 The non-smokers' choices are almost 9 infinite, considering the number of restaurants in 10 New York City. 11 The number of people that choose to 12 smoke has decreased dramatically. In 1979, the 13 cigarette machine in my bar sold 150 packs of 14 cigarettes in a week. Last month my machine sold 17 15 packs of cigarettes. Obviously education against 16 smoking is working. 17 The smoker, however, who is now a 18 minority, is made to feel like a second class 19 citizen. 20 The economic impact to a small 21 business such as mine, should you eliminate smoking, 22 would be disastrous. 23 My small tavern is one of the few 24 public places remaining where smoking is still a 25 freedom of choice. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 122 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 I didn't coin the phrase "too much 3 government". This term has been used by a number of 4 our top-ranking elected officials. These 5 representatives of the people are listening to the 6 people. We don't need more government. 7 Changing the smoking law will not get 8 people to quite smoking. It will, however, 9 absolutely put myself, along with others, out of 10 work. The impact of more restrictions on the small 11 businessman will be staggering. 12 Continue with education if your 13 purpose is to get people to give up smoking. You 14 have a smoking law that works, you have a smoking 15 law that is fair, it is a law that allows choice. 16 Freedom of choice should not be denied. 17 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: I have two 18 members that asked, but let me -- 19 MR. BLAINE: Also, Mr. Chairman, I 20 have one other thing I would like to read. 21 This is a position held by the Staten 22 Island Chamber of Commerce. 23 The position of the Staten Island 24 Chamber of Commerce is that the existing regulations 25 controlling smoking in restaurants, eating halls, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 123 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 and other facilities are sufficient. 3 The Chamber does not support recent 4 proposals that would extend smoking bans. The 5 Chamber believes that existing regulations satisfy 6 the needs of smokers and non-smokers alike. In 7 general, the Chamber of Commerce is opposed to any 8 regulations that further impede the ability of its 9 members to compete successfully in the tristate 10 area. 11 I thank you for your time. 12 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let me just, Joe, 13 as a friend, just take one of your paragraphs and 14 set the record straight. 15 The third paragraph you point out, "I 16 remind you that we supported an amendment to the 17 Smoke Free Air Act in 1988 that permitted the 18 placement of ashtrays next to hotel's and motel's 19 elevators immediately adjacent to public entrances 20 in hotels and motels." 21 Let me remind you that it was your 22 group and you who brought to our attention and this 23 leadership, and it is this leadership that then 24 moves forward on the amendment. 25 So, I appreciate you reminding me, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 124 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 but you were the one who asked for it and you got 3 it. Is that fair to say? 4 MR. SPINNATO: That is completely 5 accurate, Mr. Chairman. 6 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: You are still my 7 friend? 8 MR. SPINNATO: Of course. 9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Council Member 10 Oddo. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Mr. Blain, do 12 you believe that your tavern would fall under this 13 bill? 14 MR. BLAIN: I believe that the way it 15 is written is vague to me. We were at a meeting with 16 the City Council counselor a couple of weeks ago, 17 and the way it was explained and the way it reads, 18 to me, cuts to two different things. If it was more 19 etched in granite one way or the other, I would feel 20 a lot more comfortable with it. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Mr. Chairman -- 22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Jim, one second. 23 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Sure. 24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Because I stopped 25 the clock because I want you to have your two Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 125 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 minutes. 3 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let me be clear, 5 it is my understanding, as Chair of this Committee, 6 and I have the counsels, and I see Richard 7 somewhere, it is my understanding that this bill 8 says, if you are 40 percent or higher, i.e., not 9 beverages, but food, then your question is correct, 10 then he falls under it, correct? But if he is 40 11 percent and under, it is not food-related, then, no, 12 the answer is no. So, I just wanted to get that 13 clear. 14 MR. BLAIN: So the onus here is on 15 percentage food sales, compared to alcohol sales. 16 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Absolutely. That 17 is what the bill says. 18 MR. BLAIN: Then it will go down, 19 exactly the way you just explained? 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: That is what the 21 current law -- but, however, to keep this scenario, 22 and I am not talking sides, but that is what the 23 current law now has. We have not changed nothing. 24 MR. BLAIN: Well, I think now the 25 current law has to do with seating. Seating will not Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 126 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 be -- 3 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Well, sir, I am 4 not going to debate you. I am just simply saying, 5 the question was asked, in fairness to my colleague 6 and to you, I want to set the record straight. 7 Currently that is the case. The way I understand it, 8 the way I read this bill, and if I am wrong, let the 9 lawyers correct me, they write these bills, I don't 10 -- that, again, if you are 40 percent or higher and 11 your business is food, more food related than 12 beverages, bar, which is not a restaurant, then the 13 answer is no. But if your bar becomes 40 percent or 14 higher, not beverage related, but food related, then 15 the answer is yes because you are doing more about, 16 I guess it is called restaurant business than 17 beverages; is that what it is? 18 Okay, go ahead. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Mr. Chairman, 20 that raises two concerns that I have for some of the 21 businesses in my district, and this was pointed out 22 to me relatively recently. 23 There are some businesses that on 24 Staten Island, Brooklyn, and I imagine the rest of 25 the City, that do a very good take-out, where they Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 127 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 don't have customers eating the food that they 3 purchased on site, but take it back home, and those 4 customers and that money would go toward the 40 5 percent. That is problematic to me. 6 There are also some other 7 restaurants, or I shouldn't say restaurants, bars 8 and taverns, that the kitchen, if you will, closes 9 at a certain time, 10:00 p.m., 9:30 p.m., and the 10 bar effectively becomes a bar, they bring in dance, 11 they bring in karoke, and effectively operate 12 completely as a bar with no food, I think they would 13 fall in. And I know the Speaker said bars and 14 taverns are exempt, and if you are a bar, you are a 15 bar, if you are a restaurant you are a restaurant. 16 Unfortunately, in my district there 17 are some folks who believe that they fall somewhere 18 in between. And I just simply ask if we can clarify 19 that provision, there are a lot of folks who may be 20 concerned right now that should be concerned because 21 they may fall outside the parameters of this bill. 22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Well, Council 23 Member Oddo, you being a member and the ranking 24 minority member of this Committee, that is the 25 challenge. This is the first hearing on this Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 128 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 amendment to the bill, this is not where we are 3 going to be voting, and the challenge is to members 4 of this Committee and members of the Council, and 5 that is why we have these hearings. And I urge, or I 6 encourage you, particularly since you -- no one 7 needs to speak for you in the short time as a staff 8 person, as a personal member of the Council, and now 9 a member of this Committee, believe me, you are not 10 a shrinking violet, like Victor Robles, and you will 11 truly represent the interest of your constituents, 12 and you will be around next year, I will not. You 13 and I can work together for the next ten months if 14 this bill happens to pass. However, this is just the 15 beginning, this is the beginning of a process, I 16 urge you to raise those issues with the attorneys, 17 our counsel to the Committee and to the Speaker's 18 Office and your old attorney as the Office of the 19 minority leader can do, and as you know, I am ready 20 to work with anybody. Consensus rules, I don't even 21 know what the consensus and right now this 22 Committee. But I just want to assure you that that 23 is how we operate. 24 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: I know that 25 better than anyone. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 129 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: You know it's 3 fair, does not dictate, nor says this goes, this 4 doesn't, what comes out of this is consensus, and 5 you have enough time. 6 MR. BLAIN: Mr. Chair, can I ask you 7 one more thing, please? 8 We do not, I think I speak for a lot 9 of members of my organization, we do not expect any 10 people who oppose our views that are here today, or 11 in the City or in the country, to come into our 12 establishments, because obviously they don't like 13 smoking. 14 All we ask is that you don't take 15 that right away from the people who choose to smoke. 16 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Sir, since you 17 asked the question, I normally don't do this, but in 18 fairness and respect to you, let me be clear. 19 I am part of a legislative body that 20 has 51 equal members, although I am the Chairman of 21 this Committee, I am the Majority Whip, number three 22 leader of the Council, but when the bottom line 23 comes at the end of the day, as Chairman of this 24 Committee, regardless of who I am, I have to get 25 five members out of nine, and that is what I said Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 130 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 about majority rules, you know, consensus. 3 After we leave here, not today, then 4 I have to deal with 51 members, of which as the 5 Majority Whip, which is the head counter, and this 6 is the Speaker's bill, if I can't deliver 26 votes 7 to the Speaker after it came out of the Committee, 8 shame on me. 9 So, I want to be clear. This is not 10 about your members, my members, this is about the 11 people's legislative body, and that is what I said 12 to the Council Member, this Chair has never dictated 13 to this Committee or any committee that I have 14 presided, and in fairness, when we are going in a 15 direction that may be different from mine, I have 16 never, and I challenge even the democratic side to 17 ever say that I put a gun to anybody's head. This is 18 a legislative process, it is the beginning of 19 hearings, that is why we are spending all day 20 listening. 21 I am curious, though. What I suggest 22 you do is, your membership, if they live in the City 23 of New York, find out who their elected officials 24 are, and let the voices be heard. But you can't have 25 me from Brooklyn, when you quote me the Staten Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 131 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Island Chamber of Commerce, when I have one from 3 Brooklyn, and you know I am from Brooklyn, I would 4 like to hear from where they come too. 5 MR. BLAINE: Well, if you need help 6 with my position, let me know, I am willing to help 7 you, sir. 8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay, fine. 9 Council Member Michels, two minutes. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: Thank you, 11 Mr. Chairman. 12 President Spinnato? 13 MR. SPINNATO: Yes, sir. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: I don't think 15 there is anyone in this Council who respects you 16 more than I do and is more supportive of the hotel 17 association than I am, the hotels of this City, and 18 you have done a magnificent job over the years. 19 MR. SPINNATO: Thank you. Dido. 20 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: What I am 21 concerned about is the statement you made in your 22 statement here, saying that we depend, of course, 23 on, to just paraphrase, to a great extent foreign 24 visitors, and they need to understand or embrace the 25 legislation. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 132 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 You just came back from Italy, I just 3 came back from Israel, we both came by plane, didn't 4 we? 5 MR. SPINNATO: Yes. 6 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: And both 7 planes, as you know, are smoke-free planes. 8 MR. SPINNATO: Right. 9 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: And do you 10 think after 12 hours from Israel, and nine or ten 11 hours from Italy, I don't know how long it took you 12 to come back. 13 MR. SPINNATO: Roughly. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: Where there 15 was absolutely no smoking, you don't think they 16 understand why there is no smoking on the plane? And 17 don't you think they would understand why there is 18 no smoking at hotels in certain areas? They 19 understand. 20 MR. SPINNATO: I don't suggest that 21 they don't understand. I suggest that they don't 22 understand a complete ban on smoking when they are 23 ready to sit down and have their antipasto and their 24 wine or whatever. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: Well, if they Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 133 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 are first class they can get antipasto and wine. 3 MR. SPINNATO: Yes, but after nine and 4 a half hours they are off the airplane and they are 5 outside smoking and they are all smoking at the 6 baggage claim, because I saw the people going 7 around, the Delta people going around telling them 8 to please extinguish their cigarettes. 9 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: We know they 10 smoke, and in Israel they smoke a terrific amount 11 also, but I think they understand. And when I speak 12 to people, because I am very conscious of this, in 13 Israel and Jerusalem and various other places, there 14 is a great drive there to eliminate smoking as well, 15 and I am sure it goes one in Italy where people do 16 smoke, and I think eventually we are going to see 17 this worldwide, because it is an important health 18 issue. 19 MR. SPINNATO: I totally concur and 20 agree. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: I know you 22 do, that is why I have great respect for you. 23 MR. SPINNATO: What I didn't dwell on, 24 but I think I should now, in some response to your 25 question, the enforcement problems that we Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 134 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 experience in the hotels with regard to our foreign 3 visitors and their insistence upon smoking, and it 4 is not only the Europeans, I mean I don't think we 5 are being entirely fair, the people from the Pacific 6 are just as prone to smoking. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: You are 8 right. The Japanese -- 9 MR. SPINNATO: And now we have a 10 tremendous amount of people coming from Latin 11 America, from South and Central America, and their 12 ethic is the same as that of the European and the 13 Asian. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: Well, we are 15 turning your hotels into an educational institution. 16 MR. SPINNATO: As long as we don't 17 turn it into a penal institution. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: No, we don't 19 want to do that. 20 And as a matter of fact, it is my 21 recollection that the police are not to enforce this 22 legislation. 23 MR. SPINNATO: No, no, no. I am 24 talking about our internal enforcement by our 25 security people and our front desk people. I mean, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 135 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 you know, you will have eight people lined up, a bus 3 come in from the airport with perhaps eight Oriental 4 or Asian guests and they are waiting to check in, 5 and a couple of them light up and the front desk 6 person will say, I'm sorry, sir, but there is no 7 smoking. 8 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: And what 9 happens when you do that? 10 MR. SPINNATO: In many instances they 11 put out the cigarette. 12 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Council Member 13 Michels, your time is up. 14 MR. SPINNATO: But there have been 15 some nasty incidents and there continue to be nasty 16 incidents, especially in the afternoon or in the 17 evening after cocktail time. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: As they said 19 in the Tale of Two Cities, you can't make an 20 omelette without breaking some eggs. 21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you, 22 Council Member. 23 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: We have been 25 joined by Council Member Steve DiBrienza, from Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 136 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Brooklyn, and he has asked to ask questions. 3 You also have two minutes, Council 4 member, since you were not here when I set the 5 rules. 6 Council Member DiBrienza. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER DiBRIENZA: Thank you, 8 Mr. Chairman. 9 Actually, it is appropriate, if these 10 witnesses are otherwise done, they are not specific 11 to these witnesses. I can wait and just use less 12 than that time to make one comment. 13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: So you want to 14 make a statement? 15 COUNCIL MEMBER DiBRIENZA: Yes. 16 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay, fine. Okay. 17 Thank you so much. 18 MR. SPINNATO: Thank you, Mr. 19 Chairman. 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: You are going to 21 make me an Honorary Commissioner, right? 22 MR. SPINNATO: Yes, sir. 23 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Council Member 24 DiBrienza, for the purpose of a statement. Two 25 minutes. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 137 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 COUNCIL MEMBER DiBRIENZA: Thank you. 3 I will take less than that, Mr. Chairman. 4 I, (a) apologize for being late. As 5 you know, there are often so many meetings that go 6 on at the same time, today is no exception. 7 I came to actually take copies of the 8 testimony of all of the different groups and 9 organizations who are opposed to this bill, because 10 having voted for the first two smoking restriction 11 measures, it seems to me that we have now attempted 12 to go further than we need go. 13 We have a very tough law, we have an 14 incredible amount of choice for people. There are 15 countless, hundreds, if not thousands, of 16 restaurants in and around my own district, let alone 17 the City that are completely smoke free, there are 18 yet others that have invested time, energy and money 19 to create separate rooms. I have a restaurant on the 20 block where I grew up where there can be some who 21 choose, I would never do this, to go and drink and 22 smoke at this particular bar, because I hate smoke, 23 I hate the effects of smoke, I hate the smell of 24 smoke, but there is a separate restaurant where you 25 can eat and not even know that smokers exist. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 138 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Anyway, I am not suggesting that I 3 formulated a final opinion, but it seems to me that 4 a lot of what I picked up here today from the 5 various business groups, both large and small and 6 some of the others, particularly small 7 entrepreneurs, should give us some pause, and I just 8 wanted to come to pick up some of that material, 9 because maybe I am wrong, maybe this is just the 10 next logical step in the progression, but it seems 11 to me, from what I have heard and from what I have 12 observed, and I know you give full and fair airings 13 to all of these issues, which is why this Committee 14 is so terrific, seems like we may sort of be going 15 too far in the proposal. 16 Because if it kills a ton of small 17 businesses who would spend time, money and energy to 18 create choice for people, then we may sound strong 19 and terrific, but we may not account for all the 20 practical negative effects. 21 So, I am here to take this testimony 22 and thank you for allowing me a moment to express 23 reservation. 24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you, 25 Council Member, for your two minutes. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 139 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Let me just say to you what I said to 3 Council Member Oddo, my distinguished ranking 4 minority member of this Committee, because he raised 5 issues of concerns that perhaps fall in the same 6 area that you just raised about are we going too 7 far, too little, or in between. 8 This is the first hearing. This Chair 9 and this Committee has never, in the years that I 10 have presided, dictated when we vote, how we vote, 11 you will have the right and I urge you, since you 12 are not a member of this committee, that you have a 13 right as the member of this Council to begin as of 14 today the process with our Counsel to our Committee, 15 and/or the Speaker's Counsel, Richard Weinberg, and 16 company, with respect to any information that would 17 either educate, would put to rest any concerns, or 18 for that matter if you have any recommendations. 19 This is not the first, nor the last 20 hearing. We have never had these kind of hearings 21 where all of a sudden, you know, we propose 22 something and dispose of it the same day. 23 So, I really challenge all of the 24 Council Members who today have graced us with their 25 presence, to not only the statement, but this is the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 140 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 challenge to follow through, this is the time to use 3 our people so that when the time comes, let me be 4 clear, there will be a vote, my job is to make sure 5 I have five of the nine, and I will, and when it 6 comes to the Council as an institution, if I am 7 still before the December 31st, as the Majority 8 Whip, my role, as you know, is to make sure when the 9 Speaker goes to the floor, that any bill before the 10 Council, there are 26 votes. And by the way, in the 11 event the Administration decides to veto, then my 12 job don't end, and I am responsible for making sure 13 that we override the veto by having 34 members. That 14 is my job. 15 Now, it is our job, with all these 16 suggestions and concerns, to start working with our 17 legal people, and this is the process. So, I hope 18 that you understand that this is not just today and 19 that is it. 20 Any other questions before I call the 21 next panel? 22 And I thank you, Council Member, for 23 your concerns. 24 COUNCIL MEMBER DiBRIENZA: Thank you, 25 Mr. Chairman, as always. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 141 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Michael O'Neal 3 from O'Neal's Restaurant. Ellen Hart Sturm. David 4 Newman, from the New York Commission for 5 Occupational Safety and Health. 6 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let's go folks, 7 come on. 8 MR. O'NEAL: Okay. Mr. DiBrienza 9 before -- 10 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: No, Mr. O'Neal, 11 please wait. 12 MR. O'NEAL: Oh, I'm sorry. I am in a 13 hurry. 14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: I know you are an 15 old timer and it is always good to see you and you 16 don't change none, I set the rules. You have the 17 right to introduce yourself, begin with your 18 statement, and Mr. DiBrienza will wait until all the 19 three get finished, and if he has any questions then 20 I will be more than happy to have you. 21 Having said that, it is good to see 22 you, Mr. O'Neal. 23 MR. O'NEAL: All right. I just wanted 24 to say, I was glad to see Mr. DiBrienza here, and 25 said he is here to collect some of the opposition, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 142 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 and I think he should collect some of the good 3 doctors and the statistics that we have heard, 4 because most of the opposition is based on fear. 5 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Mr. O'Neal, why 6 don't you just identify yourself for the record. 7 MR. O'NEAL: My name is Michael 8 O'Neal, and I have been involved in the restaurant 9 business for over 40 years. I love my business and 10 that is why I am here today. 11 I think you know my feelings about 12 the subject of smoking. I have been here many times 13 testifying on the issue. 14 Someone asked me yesterday, why, that 15 if I am so opposed to smoking, why don't I ban 16 smoking in my bar, and that would solve my problem. 17 Let me answer and let me make it very clear. 18 The law is necessary that creates a 19 level playing field where everybody is on the same 20 page. California has done this very successfully. I 21 don't care what you heard from other people, but you 22 heard the doctor from California. He has got the 23 real statistics. Why are we having so much trouble 24 accepting this? Are Californians stupid? Are they 25 going to pass a law that will destroy their Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 143 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 businesses? No. 3 We are being held hostage by the 4 tobacco lobby, and I am tired of being told that we 5 will go out of business if we ban smoking in the 6 workplace. This just isn't true. 7 I know there is nothing I can do 8 about this but I am tired of those Philip Morris ads 9 that imply what good citizens they are by bringing 10 water to poor hurricane victims, or teaching a poor 11 kid after school, whether it is Kraft, Coors or 12 Philip Morris, it is all the same old lie. 13 Speaking of that. Do you see these 14 badges with the X on it that are here, and many of 15 the opponents to the bill are wearing these, those 16 were supplied by the New York State Restaurant 17 Association and they were given by R.J. Reynolds, 18 and I am embarrassed, because I have been a member 19 of the Association for 30 -- almost 40 years, 38 20 years, and I am really embarrassed by us accepting, 21 our Association accepting those things. And you 22 might remember that R.J. Reynolds, the guy testified 23 before Congress that it was not carcinogenic, I 24 think he recently died. I am not sure what he died 25 of. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 144 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Anyway, when I asked my Association 3 head Chuck Hunt why they accepted this. He says, 4 well, Joe Cherner accepts money from the cancer 5 society. I asked Joe that this morning and he 6 laughed. He said I am one of the biggest givers to 7 the Cancer Society, Joe doesn't get any money from 8 the Cancer Society or any other Society. Joe is in 9 this for himself, I don't mean for himself but on 10 his own. He is to be admired. 11 There is really a denial about 12 secondhand smoke. Secondhand smoke kills, and I 13 think we have heard so many times the facts are in 14 that secondhand smoke kills. 15 I am sorry Speaker Vallone is not 16 here but I admire your courage and I support your 17 bill, but it doesn't go far enough. It doesn't make 18 this a level playing field by allowing restaurants 19 that are less than 40 percent food sales to allow 20 smoking anywhere. 21 And Mr. Giuliani, wherever you are, I 22 am embarrassed by your lack of support. After your 23 having dealt with cancer in the last few months, 24 don't you understand? Don't you get it? 25 Once again, if your life has been Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 145 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 touched by cancer as mine has, and everybody's has 3 in some way or another, we have got to wipe out the 4 scourge of tobacco in the workplace as soon as 5 possible, and I hope this bill passes, and because 6 it is a first step, will continue to a smoke free 7 workplace. 8 Thank you. 9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let me before we 10 move on, because I saw a Council Member, but a 11 member of the State Assembly, a former member of the 12 City Council, who as I introduced his son and our 13 newest member, let me acknowledge the presence of 14 Assemblyman Jose Rivera, who used to be Councilman 15 from the Bronx, and now he is an Assemblyman from 16 the Bronx. Welcome to City Hall again. 17 MS. HART STURM: Hi. Good afternoon. 18 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Good afternoon. 19 MS. HART STURM: I am Ellen Hart 20 Sturm. I own Stardust Diner and the Iridium Jazz 21 Club. 22 Thank you for allowing me to voice my 23 opinion on a subject I feel passionately about - the 24 freedom for all of us to express and exercise our 25 personal choice, insofar as it does not endanger or Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 146 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 infringe on the rights of others. 3 Smoking is a personal decision, and 4 although I am personally against smoking for a 5 variety of reasons, such as lost productivity, high 6 medical costs, and the pain it exacts on the 7 individual and their families, it is a fundamental 8 right for all citizens to make these personal 9 decisions, as long as it does not force others to be 10 subjected to dangerous conditions against their 11 will. 12 Unfortunately, smoking in public 13 spaces robs all of us of our civil liberties and 14 makes us unwitting partners in a dangerous 15 addiction, through no fault of ours. 16 It has long been fact that secondhand 17 smoke can be hazardous to one's health and our City 18 and country has made great strides in protecting the 19 rights of all her citizens to not be subjected to 20 smoking against one's free will. 21 Not only have tougher laws made for a 22 healthier environment for all of us, but by also 23 raising the public consciousness, these guidelines 24 have steadily reduced the smoking population which 25 can only be viewed as a positive for all of us, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 147 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 current smokers and non-smokers alike. 3 However, as a concerned citizen and 4 business owner, I ask the Council to do more. 5 I have seen the success that a 6 non-smoking environment has done for my restaurant, 7 Ellen Stardust Diner and the Iridium Jazz Club, the 8 advantages of a smoke-free environment have been 9 many. The most interesting case study can be found 10 at the Iridium Jazz Club, New York's only completely 11 smoke-free jazz club. No smoking in a jazz club? 12 Complete heresy, they said. However, since 13 instituting this policy over four years ago, we have 14 seen a steady rise in revenue and satisfied 15 customers that enjoy an improved environment. 16 Many customers have commented now 17 they can finally start going to see live music 18 again. 19 You see, smokers can always smoke 20 before or after a meal or a show, but non-smokers 21 should not have to grin and bear it. 22 I have seen the same results at 23 another one of my restaurants, Ellen Stardust Diner, 24 where smokers are no longer taking unscheduled 25 breaks and returning smelling like an ashtray. They Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 148 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 will also hopefully wean themselves of this 3 dangerous habit. 4 When we all started imposing stricter 5 laws, we thought we would see decreased revenue. 6 This is not the case. Smokers can adjust their 7 smoking schedule, while non-smokers no longer need 8 to avoid smoky restaurants and other businesses 9 health issues are minimized, revenue increases, and 10 our civil liberties remain intact. 11 Not only will a completely smoke-free 12 environment improve our City's businesses, it will 13 also improve our lives. 14 By limiting where and when people can 15 smoke, we also do our part to discourage others from 16 smoking or trying that first cigarette. 17 For while I am personally worried 18 about the health affects on non-smokers from 19 secondhand smoke, I also would like to help my 20 fellow New Yorkers that currently smoke cigarettes. 21 We have all seen the damage long-term 22 smoking has caused. 23 Therefore, as both a businesswoman 24 and a human being, I implore the Council to continue 25 on this path and call for a completely smoke-free Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 149 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 environment for all. 3 Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 5 Now, before you go on, sir, did you 6 give that to the Sergeant-At-Arms or is that the 7 only copy you have? 8 MS. HART STURM: My daughter-in-law 9 has some more. 10 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Well, did we ever 11 get her statement? If not, can you give us that one, 12 because we need it for the record. 13 MS. HART STURM: Sure. 14 MR. NEWMAN: Good afternoon. 15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Good afternoon. 16 MR. NEWMAN: My name is David Newman, 17 I am here on behalf of the New York Committee for 18 Occupational Safety and Health. 19 NYCOSH is a private non-profit 20 organization, the members include over 200 local 21 unions in the metropolitan area, as well as many 22 individual workplace health and safety activists, 23 health care professionals, and workers compensation 24 attorneys. 25 I want to thank the members of the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 150 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Council for holding this hearing and for giving us 3 the opportunity to testify. 4 The Smoke Free Air Act was a 5 significant step forward in protecting the health of 6 most workers in the City. 7 As you know, however, the act permits 8 bars and restaurants to continue to expose their 9 employees as a condition of employment to 10 environmental tobacco smoke on a daily basis. 11 Although we support the proposed 12 amendments, we believe they are not sufficient to 13 rectify the situation. 14 NYCOSH urges the passage of an 15 amended Smoke Free Air Act that prohibits indoor 16 smoking by workers or customers at any place of 17 employment, including bars and restaurants. 18 Restrict smoking to the outdoors, 19 away from building entrances and air intakes, and 20 requires employers to make available smoke cessation 21 programs to employees who smoke. 22 Three-thousand non-smoking Americans 23 die each year from lung cancer caused by exposure to 24 environmental tobacco smoke, ETS. Workplace exposure 25 to ETS results in 700 new cases of lung cancer and Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 151 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 up to 13,000 deaths from heart disease each year. 3 Research shows there is a clear 4 association between exposure to ETS and subsequent 5 development of lung cancer. 6 There is no known safe level of 7 exposure to environmental tobacco smoke, that is, 8 there is no evidence that there is a threshold below 9 which exposure to environmental tobacco smoke is not 10 capable of causing cancer. 11 Some occupations place workers more 12 at risk than other occupations. 13 Levels of environmental tobacco smoke 14 in restaurants are twice as high as in offices, and 15 one and a half times higher than in homes where one 16 or more family members smoke. 17 Levels of ETS in bars are over four 18 times higher than offices or in smoking homes. 19 Food service workers exposed to ETS 20 suffer a 50 percent higher rate of lung cancer. 21 Bartenders have also been found to be at increased 22 risk. Thus, precisely the groups of workers that are 23 at increased risk, i.e., bartenders and food service 24 workers, are the groups that are left unprotected by 25 the current law and will remain, in our opinion, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 152 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 insufficiently protected by the proposed amendments. 3 Some agencies in governments have 4 acted to prevent, rather than reduce, occupational 5 exposure to environmental tobacco smoke. 6 After separation of smoking and 7 non-smoking passengers failed to protect flight 8 attendants and non-smoking passengers, smoking was 9 banned on commercial flights in the U.S. 10 After California extended its 11 smoke-free workplace protections to bars and 12 taverns, bartenders were found to have reduced rates 13 of respiratory symptoms and improves pulmonary 14 function. 15 There are only two basic strategies 16 for attacking occupational exposure to ETS. One is 17 to reduce exposure as in the proposed amendments, by 18 limiting smoking to certain times or places and/or 19 by utilizing various types of ventilation control. 20 This approach is difficult to 21 implement, expensive, and has not been shown to be 22 effective. 23 The second approach is to prohibit 24 all indoor air smoking, all indoor smoking. This 25 approach is easy to implement, it's cost-free, and Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 153 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 has been demonstrated to be effective, not just at 3 reducing but eliminating both exposure and risk. 4 NYCOSH urges Council Members to 5 protect the health of our City workers by 6 strengthening the proposed amendments to prohibit 7 smoking in all places of employment. Thank you for 8 this opportunity to make our views known. 9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 10 much. 11 I have two Council Members who have 12 asked to be recognized. 13 Council Member Michels, two minutes. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: First of all, 15 I would like to say, this is like deja vu all over 16 again. 17 As many of you know, I am leaving the 18 Council at the end of this year, after being here my 19 24th year, and it just reminds me of back in 1987 20 when Mike O'Neal and Ellen Sturm were here and 21 testified, and Ellen was probably one of the first 22 restaurants, probably the first restaurant in the 23 City of New York before we even had the law to 24 experiment and to have non-smoking, and I think 25 Ellen Sturm, and mike deserves such great credit for Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 154 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 their courage in coming into this issue before it 3 was popular, before anybody knew anything about it. 4 They recognized it, they understood it. And I think 5 it is an opportunity to pay tribute to them, and for 6 me, I am glad that I have had this opportunity to, 7 before I leave the Council, to say that you have 8 contributed so much and saved so many lives of the 9 people of the City of New York. Everybody should 10 applaud you and give you the recognition that you 11 deserve. 12 And I have been to both of your 13 restaurants quite often, and let me tell you, you 14 don't suffer from business. 15 MS. HART STURM: Thank you. 16 MR. O'NEAL: Thank you. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: Demonstrative 18 evidence, as we say in the law, of institutions and 19 of individuals who prove the fact that when you do 20 not have smoking in your businesses, you still 21 prosper and flourish even better than before. 22 Thank you very much. 23 I should remind people that this 24 young woman over here was one of the first Miss 25 Subway's, and that was before -- I guess they don't Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 155 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 have that anymore. And you are as beautiful as ever. 3 MS. HART STURM: Thank you very much, 4 I appreciate that. 5 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay, are we 6 ready? 7 COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELS: You are 8 ready. 9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: I have been to 10 your restaurant. I have committed myself, before my 11 tenth month is over, I will visit your restaurant, 12 because you have been consistent. So, I echo 13 whatever has been said. And I don't want to get into 14 trouble about how pretty or how not pretty because 15 then I get into trouble. 16 Council Member DiBrienza, two 17 minutes. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER DiBRIENZA: I only need 19 ten seconds. 20 I just want to clarify the record. 21 The reason I mentioned the opposition papers is 22 because I have twice voted for the bills that we 23 have passed, I am about as big an anti-smoker as 24 there is on the planet. I won't go places where I 25 either smell or end up -- smell the smoke while I am Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 156 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 there, or end up smelling like smoke after I am 3 there. 4 I have thrown clothes out because of 5 it. So, if it wasn't clear, it is because I already 6 know one side of the story, although I will amend 7 the statement to say, because Council Member Michels 8 pointed out, I should pick up several of the pieces 9 of paper here, for example, from the Cancer Society 10 and some of the other witnesses who once again 11 retell the story as far as where we are headed. So, 12 I just wanted to -- 13 MR. O'NEAL: There has been some 14 tremendous, I think, and significant information 15 given here today. 16 COUNCIL MEMBER DiBRIENZA: I am sure 17 there has. And I will take it all, I am just 18 concerned that we have a very tough law and we have 19 a lot of movement and change that has occurred, and 20 this is the third time we are going back to this 21 issue, and it just this time around I am concerned 22 because of the actions that people have taken to 23 comply, the cost involved, the small businesses 24 implications and the like, not to suggest that I 25 somehow now like smoking, or won't listen to all of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 157 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 the testimony, I am taking it all. So, I just wanted 3 the record to be clear. 4 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 5 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. And 6 Mr. O'Neal, since I stopped you before you started, 7 now if you wanted to correct the record, because of 8 now, Council Member DiBrienza, you are more than 9 free to say whatever you want to say. 10 MR. O'NEAL: You know, in Paris they 11 have no smoking laws. I am just making a comment. 12 They have no smoking laws in Paris, but they allow 13 dogs. I wonder if Parisians come here and expect to 14 bring their dogs, that they will be upset. 15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay, let's move 16 on. 17 Thank you very much. 18 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Hugh O'Lunney, 19 James McBratney, and Karen Cavanagh. 20 John Moloney. 21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay. 22 MR. McBRATNEY: Good afternoon, 23 everyone. 24 My name is James McBratney, I am 25 President of the Staten Island Restaurant and Tavern Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 158 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Association. I am also the proprietor of Jimmy Max 3 and the Parsonage Restaurant on Staten Island. 4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Corrected, you 5 are not the Chamber of Commerce, correct? 6 MR. McBRATNEY: Yes, sir. 7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay, thank you. 8 MR. McBRATNEY: The first thing I 9 would like to do is to respectfully disagree with 10 Mr. Vallone's earlier statement. He stated and 11 asserted that this was a cut and dry issue. It is 12 not as black and white as he makes it out to be. 13 There are bars within restaurants that would be 14 adversely affected, it is not just a bar versus 15 restaurant bill. Anyway, that is varying from my 16 text. 17 I represent an organization that is 18 68 members strong, most of our members are owner 19 operators, people who go to their taverns or bars or 20 restaurants. All of us have our hands on the pulse 21 of our industry. We know that further constraints 22 placed on the smoking privileges of our patrons will 23 spell economic doom for our bar and tavern business. 24 I ask you, when will there be enough 25 laws, what choices are left for a smoking public Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 159 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 that is engaging in a perfectly illegal, albeit 3 unhealthy addiction. 4 The tavern or bar is the last public 5 place left for the smoker to light up. 6 I would like it to be known that in 7 1995 I spoke on behalf of the Clean Air Act. I am a 8 former board of directors -- I am a former board 9 member of the American Lung Association. I am not 10 with the Lung Association today, not because I 11 disagree with their stance just because of time 12 constraints, I am still a staunch anti-smoking 13 advocate, however -- and one other point, my 14 restaurant Jimmy Max was a smoke-free dining room 15 long before the law was enacted. 16 The current law works well, and I ask 17 why change it now, it accommodates both the smoker 18 and the non-smoker. 19 On a more personal note, I have a 20 problem because my restaurant has a bar which is 21 thankfully fairly busy. This bar would be exempt 22 from the proposed law, except for the fact that I do 23 a brisk take out and delivery business. 24 The additional food business puts my 25 establishment over the 40 percent food barrier, my Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 160 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 food would then have to be -- my bar would then have 3 to be non-smoking because of food that is not even 4 consumed on premise. 5 These take out and delivery 6 customers, in some cases, choose to eat at home 7 because they cannot smoke in our dining room. 8 As a restaurateur and as the 9 President of the Staten Island Restaurant and Tavern 10 Association, I strongly urge you not to amend the 11 Smoke Free Air Act of 1995. The law, as written, has 12 been effective for the past years, and is working 13 well. 14 And I would also like to add as an 15 aside, that our government is a co-conspirator in 16 all of this. Everyone is pointing at us for being 17 tobacco supporters. I am a staunch anti-smoking 18 advocate, until our government outlaws cigarettes or 19 tobacco, don't we owe something to the smoking 20 population to provide them with a place to smoke. 21 That last place is our bar. Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let me just say 23 this, because Council Member Oddo raised it, you 24 raised it again, I think it has been on record, and 25 I am glad that not only my counsel, but counsel from Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 161 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 the Speaker's Office is here too. That question 3 which was raised, I assure you we will look at. 4 MR. McBRATNEY: Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Because that was 6 not the intent when I was being briefed on this 7 bill. And I guess we overlooked that perhaps, and it 8 seems like it was coming out of Staten Island, but 9 the fact is, in all of the discussions that I have 10 had on this bill and prepared myself for this 11 hearing, that question never really came up about 12 whether a restaurant whose business not intake in 13 the premise but out, and I will assure you, we will 14 look at it. But there again, the challenge is this 15 is not the last hearing. You have to just keep 16 consistent, and I must tell you, we are not going to 17 write off the bill, but perhaps you would be 18 surprised if you are consistent. Maybe your concern 19 that you raise is something that we overlooked and 20 that is what the Speaker said. The Speaker said 21 there will be amendments. 22 I mean, just because he proposes it, 23 it doesn't mean all of a sudden it is God Almighty. 24 He, himself, said this morning, that if need be, we 25 will look at amendments. So, I want to again assure Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 162 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 my colleagues from Staten Island, I want to assure 3 those from Staten Island who have brought or raised 4 an issue, maybe in other boroughs, but you are the 5 ones who seem to be raising it, that this chair has 6 heard it. I will direct our legal people to look at 7 it and to really see whether we need to look at 8 that. And if we do, we will adjust to it. 9 And correct me if I am wrong, I think 10 the bill, the current law says -- you know, I don't 11 understand, if the current law now says 40 percent 12 or below and you have beverages, not food, we 13 haven't changed it. So, maybe my dilemma is, I don't 14 know what we are changing here, because what is the 15 current law is what we have now. 16 But we will look at it and we will 17 address it before whatever outcome of this bill is. 18 Okay, thank you. 19 I am sorry, Ma'am. Go ahead. 20 MS. CAVANAGH: Mr. Chairman, I would 21 like to introduce myself. My name is Karen Cavanagh. 22 I live and work on Staten Island. 23 My reasons for speaking here today is 24 to let you see me as a personal individual, and 25 perhaps to help personalize by business plight. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 163 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Nineteen years ago I became a single 3 parent, sole support for my two teenage daughters, 4 never having completed college. I was having a great 5 deal of difficulty supporting my family. 6 I took out a loan and decided to open 7 up a business. I opened up my tavern. 8 Over the past 18 years of life, life 9 and business has gone through many difficulties. I 10 work anywhere from 12 to 18 hours daily in my 11 tavern. I managed to help my two girls graduate 12 through college, and I have walked them down the 13 aisle to have them married. 14 Running my business has not been an 15 easy task. I find my business has so many rules and 16 regulations, it can actually make your head spin. If 17 I had regulated my children's lives as much, I am 18 sure I would have been brought up on child abuse 19 charges. 20 Did you know my industry is the most 21 heavily regulated? We not only have guidelines set 22 by the liquor licenses throughout the State of New 23 York, but the City has a barrage of agencies that 24 regulates us as well. 25 Each agency has a license that I must Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 164 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 renew on an annual basis, at a minimal total cost to 3 my business of $3,500 a year. 4 I offer here a list of these 5 agencies. The New York State Liquor Authority for a 6 fee of $1,200 a year allows me to have my bar, tells 7 me how many square feet of sales space I can operate 8 on, what time I can open, what time I can close, how 9 old my customers must be, and how much they can 10 ingest. 11 They also advise me as how I can 12 decorate my business. I am not allowed to have 13 covered windows, and if you check into the bylaws, 14 you are not allowed to have Santa Claus decorations 15 during the holidays. 16 If I decide to expand my business, I 17 must check with them first, refile, perhaps another 18 license is due. 19 I am not allowed to have percussion 20 instruments or dancing because I will become a 21 cabaret and therefore, I have to file for another 22 license. 23 The New York City Department of 24 Health, for a fee of $350 a year, allows me the 25 privilege of having a yearly inspection with the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 165 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 results published on the Internet for everyone to 3 see. But then again, they don't have to explain why 4 I got the violation. 5 They mandate a food handlers 6 certificate, regardless if I have food, just the use 7 of ice cubes in a beverage is enough. 8 I must post 15 necessary warning 9 signs on my premise, advising my customers as to the 10 danger of my product, how to file a complaint 11 against my product, that I must carry a CPR kit, 12 even though I don't have to learn how to use it, I 13 must have choking signs, and at one time a sign had 14 to be posted in public view behind my bar that 15 blatantly said no spitting behind the bar. 16 The Department of Consumer Affairs 17 charges per machine. They regulate how many games I 18 am allowed in my establishment. I am allowed four. 19 They also regulate my occupancy. I am 20 allowed 50 people. The Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms 21 Division I pay a fee of $250 a year. I am really not 22 too sure why, I just know I get a bill every year 23 from them. 24 The New York City Fire Department 25 also charges me $250 a year, and they come in, of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 166 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 course, and they expect for the exit lights, fire 3 hazards and make sure my C02 tanks are changed. 4 New York's Department of Buildings 5 charges me $200 a year for a permit to have a sign 6 hanging over my sidewalk on the exterior of my 7 building. Of course, if I want to put flower pots or 8 decorate the outside of my building, I have to get 9 permits and that is another fine -- another fee, 10 excuse me. 11 The National Music Licensing Bureau 12 checks to tell me that I am only allowed 38 inches 13 of TV viewing space. If I have more than 38 inches, 14 I can only have the TV volume on one TV. If they 15 both play at the same time, I must then report this 16 and pay music royalties at a cost, it goes by your 17 occupancy and your square footage, I must pay 18 royalties of $300 a year to each one of the music 19 industries, BMI, CSEK and ASCAP. 20 The New York State Lottery Commission 21 mandates that I show at least 25 percent of my 22 income on food. I cannot have quick draw unless I 23 maintain a bank account, pay the bank free, pay a 24 bond, pay for the telephone and the connection fees 25 for the privilege of earning six cents on a dollar Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 167 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 commission from the lottery. 3 The New York City Police Department 4 regulates my tavern every holiday. I just recently 5 got a visit from the 120th Precinct to find out if I 6 was having a party for St. Patricks Day. If I am 7 having a party, how many people am I having? How 8 many people do I expect? Will there be music? 9 They respond to complaints by 10 neighbors who get upset if my customers park near 11 their homes, send in the undercover agents to see if 12 I am checking for ID and do random spot searches to 13 see if our liquor licenses are up to date or check 14 our supply closets and our basements, I still don't 15 know why. 16 New York City Department of 17 Sanitation checks my garbage to see that I have a 18 private carter, and I am paying per load and per 19 container. I am located on a bus stop, so I receive 20 fines for candy papers and wrappers on the sidewalk, 21 yet until last year, after much pushing, I finally 22 got a garbage pale put in front of my bar. 23 I could go on, but my plea today is, 24 please, keep the City Council out of our restaurant 25 and tavern industry. We already have enough Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 168 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 regulations and an effective law governing the 3 smoking issue is working. 4 I wish I had this much help raising 5 my children as I do with government intervention. 6 However, as a mother you know, you have to know when 7 to let go. Let us go as business owners and let us 8 run our own places. Please consider leaving the 9 present Clean Air Act alone. Thank you. 10 MR. MOLONEY: Ladies and gentlemen, my 11 name is John Moloney. I own Robert Emmetts Bar and 12 Restaurant in the New Times Square. My restaurant is 13 located on two levels, it was designed at 14 considerable expense to permit smoking at the bar 15 and lower level, in compliance with the 1995 Smoke 16 Free Air Act. My construction costs were over $1 17 million, which the air filtration system alone costs 18 over $200,000. My business comprises a 40 to 50 19 percent tourist rate, mostly European, 60 percent of 20 whom smoke. 21 Every night dozens of people ask me 22 if they can smoke inside before they can even enter 23 the restaurant. These people are appalled at the 24 smoking regulations now in effect and see the 25 proposed new bill as hostile to tourists. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 169 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 If this new Act goes into effect, it 3 will have a drastic affect on my present business, 4 as we are just 15 months old and are still 5 developing our customer base. 6 To comply with the provisions in this 7 proposed act will be unfeasible and unaffordable and 8 will have the effect of putting me out of business. 9 Estimates to build an enclosed 10 smoking area range from $40,000 to $80,000, and the 11 general consensus is that this work will destroy the 12 appearance of my establishment. 13 I have invested in the future of 14 Times Square with a brand new beautiful two-story 15 restaurant in a still developing area. I work 16 closely with the Times Square Business Improvement 17 District, taking part in all the sponsorships and 18 promotions of the district; therefore, I ask you to 19 allow me to remain part of the business community of 20 this City and to vote against this bill. Let the 21 Smoke Free Air Act of '95 stand. 22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. Let me 23 just say one thing, especially to Mrs. Cavanagh, 24 because you walked through all of the agencies, 25 whether they were state or federal or city. Let me Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 170 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 just say, and you don't have to agree with me, but I 3 got -- I am reminded that I also heard people say 4 that people needed a place to go to dance and have 5 recreation because they, after being a house wife or 6 a husband coming from work, that they had to go some 7 place, and I must tell you that I am not defending 8 the City agencies, but there is a purpose and reason 9 why they do what they do. 10 All I know, one thing, I have an 11 obligation, as Chairman of this Committee, not only 12 in health but as a Council Member, and I must tell 13 you, representing the people of North Brooklyn, 14 where I come from, because we let our guard down 108 15 people died in an establishment called Happyland, 16 and I must tell you, that sometimes as we go through 17 these things we must understand, because I go 18 through this every day, especially because I 19 represent a Hispanic community, and it was mentioned 20 here how they come from Central America and the 21 culture. Well, yes, maybe in Puerto Rico you can do 22 the pigs on the road, but when you come to New York 23 City, there is a reason why that's being done. 24 So, I hope we understand that 25 sometimes we don't understand why these agencies but Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 171 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 there is a purpose, and it all stems from the 3 people's will through pressure, and that is what the 4 government is about. And sometimes we disagree and 5 sometimes we do agree, but for the most part they 6 were done because people came before this Council or 7 the State Legislature and pressured to have 8 legislation. 9 So, I hope you don't think that we 10 are singling out anybody. We are doing our jobs, and 11 you know what? When the time comes the people that 12 we represent will determine whether we have 13 fulfilled our obligation. And I want to be clear, I 14 am not singling you out, but I have to tell you, 15 right now where I am coming from, we have a problem 16 with illegal conversion to loss, and I am being 17 criticized because I refused to tell the City of New 18 York, don't evict if the public safety is involved. 19 I am sorry, I took an oath, and while if it is minor 20 violations, that does not place the lives in danger, 21 so be it. 22 Now, it may be different from what 23 you are referring to, but I had to say it because 24 the men and women who work for our City, with all 25 due respect, have enough people criticizing what Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 172 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 they do. But I must tell you, I thank them that they 3 do their job, because too many tragedies have 4 occurred, because what I call in Puerto Rico the 5 Ibendito (phonetic). 6 So, I had to say that because I don't 7 want you to think that you are being singled out or 8 your industry, there is a purpose for these things. 9 But I want to thank you all for taking the time to 10 come and testify. 11 Thank you. 12 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Dr. Clarita 13 Herrera. Dr. Andrew Hyland. James Rapace. 14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Sergeants, please 15 do me a favor. There are three people there, they 16 have testimony. If they have, we would like to 17 follow their testimony and I only have one. So, 18 those who come to testify, if you have prepared 19 remarks, please give them to the Sergeant-At-Arms 20 and we will make sure we get them, and having said 21 that, and if you are going to testify and you are 22 testifying out of notes, then I ask you to leave the 23 notes behind because that becomes part of the 24 record. 25 You cannot testify and solely rely Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 173 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 upon a tape that perhaps might find itself that it 3 all of a sudden gets destroyed, erased. We have had 4 those experience, history has showed us. And so if 5 you don't have a prepared statement to give to all 6 of us, please make sure that before you leave you 7 leave behind the statement that you have read. 8 Having said that, let's move forward. 9 DR. HERRERA: Thank you. My name is 10 Clarita Herrera. I am in private practice in New 11 York City, and I, for the record, support Intro. 12 865. 13 I have the honor of reading the 14 testimony of Dr. Michelle Block, a medical officer 15 of the Tobacco Control Research Branch of the 16 National Cancer Institute. So, let me read it to 17 you. 18 Thank you for the invitation to serve 19 as an expert witness to provide testimony for you 20 today. I regret that I am not able to join you in 21 person at this hearing. My testimony will focus on 22 the grave health hazards of environmental tobacco 23 smoke, ETS. The material I am presenting today is 24 based on the National Cancer Institute Monograph 25 Number 10, entitled Health Effects of Exposure to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 174 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Environmental Tobacco Smoke. 3 Let me begin by describing some of 4 the hazardous compounds in ETS, which is also known 5 as "secondhand smoke," or "involuntary smoking" or 6 "passive smoking." 7 It is a complex mixture of more than 8 4,000 compounds. The large number of constituents 9 results from the chemical composition of tobacco and 10 chemical and physical processes that occur as a 11 cigarette is smoked and tobacco is burned. 12 ETS contains numerous chemicals known 13 or suspected to impair human health. These include 14 the following: 15 Irritants and toxicants, which are 16 the ammonia, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde and 17 nicotine. 18 Number two, carcinogens: ETS contains 19 more than 50 compounds that are recognized as known 20 or probable human carcinogens. And these include 21 N-Nitrosamines, benzenes, vinyl chloride and 22 radionuclides. 23 And number three, developmental and 24 reproductive toxicants, also known as chemicals that 25 impair human reproductions or damage to developing Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 175 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 fetus. 3 These include carbon disulfide, lead, 4 nicotine, cadmium and toluene. 5 Scientific studies consistently show 6 that concentrations of a number of toxic and 7 carcinogenic constituents of ETS are elevated in 8 environments where smoking is allowed, as compared 9 to those environments when it is not. 10 These environmental exposures have a 11 biological consequence. Numerous studies have 12 detected ETS constituents in the urine, blood and 13 saliva of exposed non-smokers, including infants, 14 children and non-smoking pregnant women. 15 Let me turn now to the health hazards 16 of ETS; these have become apparent in the last 17 several decades. 18 The 1979 Surgeon General's Report, 19 Smoking and Health: A Report of the Surgeon General, 20 U.S. DHEW, 1979, noted that ETS exposure was 21 associated with several adverse respiratory outcomes 22 in both children and adults, and some acute 23 cardiovascular effects in adults. 24 The 1982 Surgeon General's Report A 25 Report of the Surgeon General, U.S. DHEW, 1982, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 176 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 which focused on the carcinogenic effects of active 3 smoking, raised the possibility that ETS might cause 4 lung cancer. 5 A large series of epidemiological 6 investigations followed the publication of that 7 report; these provided compelling evidence of a 8 causal relationship between ETS and lung cancer. 9 This was the conclusion of three 10 important subsequent reports, the 1986 Surgeon 11 General's Report, Report of the Surgeon General, 12 U.S. DHHS, 1986; the report of the National Research 13 Council, Environmental tobacco smoke: Measuring 14 exposures and addressing health effects. National 15 Academy Press, 1986; and the report of the U.S. 16 Environmental Protection Agency, or EPA, in 1992. 17 So, to repeat, all three of these 18 authoritative reports concluded that ETS was a cause 19 of lung cancer in non-smokers. 20 And, finally, in May 2000, our sister 21 agency at the National Institute of Health, the 22 National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, 23 released the ninth edition of their report on 24 carcinogens, which listed ETS as a known human 25 carcinogen. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 177 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The most recent review of the 3 evidence linking ETS with human disease was 4 undertaken by the State of California, and you have 5 heard the report. 6 This five-year effort confirmed an 7 extended findings of earlier reports and concluded 8 that ETS causes lung cancer, nasal sinus cancer, and 9 heart disease in adults. 10 The report estimated that ETS causes 11 up to 62,000 heart disease deaths annually and 3,000 12 lung cancer deaths annually in non-smokers. 13 The report also concluded that ETS 14 causes serious respiratory illnesses in children, 15 including lower respiratory fact infection, as 16 bronchitis and pneumonia, and induces and 17 exacerbates asthma in children and causes middle ear 18 infection in children. 19 Lastly, the report concluded that ETS 20 causes low birth weight in the children of 21 non-smoking pregnant women exposed to ETS during 22 their pregnancy and sudden infant syndrome in 23 children. 24 NCI recognizes the importance of the 25 finding of the California report, and we have sought Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 178 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 to disseminate widely its science and conclusion by 3 publishing the report as part of our monograph 4 series. 5 Reflecting the importance of this 6 issue to public health, the Surgeon General David 7 Satcher said in his preface to our monograph, and I 8 quote: 9 "I hope that this broad dissemination 10 will accelerate public recognition that ETS causes 11 lung cancer, heart disease, sudden infant death 12 syndrome, and a wide variety of other serious 13 diseases. I call on everyone committed to public 14 health to join with me in encouraging communities to 15 enact Clean Indoor Air ordinances requiring 100 16 percent smoke-free environments in all public areas 17 and workplaces, including all restaurants and bars. 18 Thank you very much for this 19 opportunity to address you today. 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay. 21 DR. HYLAND: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 22 Good morning. My name is Dr. Andrew 23 Hyland, and I am a research scientist in the 24 Department of Cancer Prevention, Epidemiology and 25 Vital Statistics at Roswell Park Cancer Institute in Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 179 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Buffalo, New York. 3 I have spent the last five years 4 working on a project funded by the Robert Wood 5 Johnson Foundation, analyzing the impact of New York 6 City's Smoke Free Air Act on the City's restaurant 7 industry, and I was asked by the policy Task Force 8 by the Coalition for a Smoke Free City to volunteer 9 my time to speak today at this hearing this morning, 10 this afternoon, so I can share with you the results 11 from my research. 12 I have some testimony here, I 13 apologize for not having it. You will get copies of 14 this. You are familiar with the law, I won't go into 15 it in details. 16 To see what impact the law had on 17 restaurant sales we took a multi-faceted approach. 18 We analyzed borough-specific 19 restaurant employment statistics and these actually 20 were crafted just for this hearing and are now 21 published. We examine trends in restaurant and hotel 22 taxable sales receipts both inside and outside the 23 City. We did surveys or restaurant owners, we did 24 surveys of consumers about 18 months after the law 25 took effect, and to measure compliance we did Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 180 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 unannounced inspections in restaurants to assess 3 compliance. 4 The details of much of this research 5 can be found in the January 1999 issue of the 6 Journal of Public Health Management and Practice, an 7 issue entirely devoted to smoke-free restaurants and 8 economics. 9 There was a lot of controversy 10 surrounding the passage of the New York City law, 11 this has been detailed, many feared it would lead to 12 lost business, create chaos. For example, some 13 predicted sharp drops in restaurant business in New 14 York City, and increases in bordering counties. 15 Others predicted the hotel industry would suffer as 16 large conventions would be booked elsewhere. 17 The results to my analysis show that 18 the predictions about the adverse economic impact to 19 the smoke-free ordinance run founded in that the 20 implementation of the law was done with relative 21 ease. 22 I will spend very briefly this 23 afternoon with some of the main arguments against 24 the New York City law and show you the data that 25 refute each of them. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 181 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The first argument is that the law is 3 bad for restaurant and hospitality business, just 4 like to say this is the health issue, we look at 5 economics, it's a side effect. But some people argue 6 about the economic issues. Well, here is what we 7 found. Consistent with the data from dozens of other 8 communities across the country, the results from New 9 York City show that the smoke-free law did not 10 adversely affect restaurant or hotel sales. 11 After adjusting for inflation, 12 taxable sales in New York City restaurants have gone 13 up 22 percent since the law took effect, while the 14 figure in the rest of New York State where smoking 15 is still permitted in restaurants under the 16 provisions of the State law, has increased by only 17 one percent. 18 Taxable sales for New York City 19 hotels are 64 percent since the law took effect, 20 while only increasing five percent in the rest of 21 New York State. These trends also hold after 22 adjustment for other economic factors, such as 23 unemployment, increases in retail sales and so on. 24 Many predicted that large restaurants 25 that were required to be smoke free would lost Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 182 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 business to small restaurants that were exempt from 3 the law. If this were true, I would expect to see 4 more large restaurant owners say that their business 5 decreased since the law took effect, compared to 6 small restaurant owners. 7 However, the data showed that about a 8 third of all restaurant owners, regardless of the 9 number of seats in their facility, report that their 10 business was off since in the 18 months after the 11 law took effect. 12 So, while the interpretation of this 13 is that the smoke free law did not adversely effect 14 the restaurants, while many of them report business 15 losses, I think this stems from the indication that 16 the restaurant industry is extremely competitive, 17 but there wasn't a differential effect for the large 18 or the small restaurants. 19 I think the most telling and simple 20 statistic to site is that there is 22,000 more 21 restaurant employees in the City now than there were 22 five years ago. The number of restaurant employees 23 per person is increased 18 percent over all of New 24 York City since 1994. And if we examine per person 25 restaurant employment in each borough, we find that Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 183 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 actually it is led by Staten Island with increases 3 of over 30 percent, the Bronx coming in second. 4 Again, you don't have the testimony in front of you 5 and I just want to cite the data for each specific 6 borough mentioned. 7 Richmond, 31 percent increase, Bronx 8 36 percent increase, Kings 12 percent, Queens, seven 9 percent and Manhattan nine percent, compared to 10 nearby counties, Nassau, a six percent increase, 11 Rockland 13 percent decrease, Westchester one 12 percent decrease. 13 Some smokers did report dining out 14 less frequently but non-smokers who outnumber 15 smokers four to one reported dining out more 16 frequently. And virtually no one reported that they 17 had left the City just to dine in a place that 18 permitted smoking. 19 The second argument is that 20 restaurant owners won't obey the Smoke Free law and 21 it is too costly to implement them. 22 In random unannounced inspections of 23 251 restaurants, it revealed only four instances for 24 smoking was observed in non-smoking areas. 25 In other words, the overwhelming Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 184 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 majority of restaurants were obeying the law. And 3 the vast majority of restaurant owners said they 4 didn't spend any money to comply with the law, and 5 of those that did spend money, the median amount was 6 $200 or less, primarily for signs. 7 Well, there were some complaints 8 after the law took effect. They decreased quite 9 rapidly after a couple of months. Today about one 10 complaint is registered every one million meals 11 eaten in New York City restaurants. In fact, there 12 are fewer complaints now with the City's current law 13 than there was with the existing law that mandated 14 separate sections for smokers and non-smokers. 15 And the third argument is that the 16 public won't support these laws. Again, Mr. Schoen 17 gave some evidence to this before in our survey in 18 1996, we found that 87 percent of people surveyed 19 supported the law or didn't care, and actually more 20 smokers favored the law than opposed it. And most 21 people surveyed felt that New York City's law is too 22 weak and it should be expanded to include smaller 23 restaurants. 24 In conclusion, this study is the most 25 comprehensive analysis of the economic impact of the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 185 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Smoke Free law ever conducted. 3 I found no evidence to support the 4 predictions that the restaurant or tourism 5 industries would suffer as a result of the New York 6 City law. 7 Updated analysis of borough specific 8 restaurant employment also provide compelling 9 support for the argument that the Smoke Free law as 10 not bad for the restaurant industry. 11 Furthermore, most restaurants had 12 adjusted to the new smoking law with relative ease, 13 and the public overwhelmingly supports the law and 14 would like to see it expanded to cover all 15 restaurants. 16 The conclusion from my study is that 17 the New York City hospitality business has remained 18 healthy, even when Smoke Free ordinances are enacted 19 and enforced. 20 Thank you. 21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: I just want to 22 make sure that you provide the staff that so we have 23 it also. 24 Sir. 25 MR. REPACE: Chairman Robles, members Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 186 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 of the Council, I am James Repace. I am a Research 3 Physicist and I worked for the United States 4 Environmental Protection Agency for 19 years, worked 5 also 16 months for the Occupational Safety Health 6 Administration when it proposed to ban smoking in 7 all workplaces. 8 I am currently the President of 9 Repace Associates, which is a secondhand smoke 10 consultant. 11 The current Smoke Free Air Act in New 12 York City reduces but does not eliminate secondhand 13 smoke exposure due to the recirculation of smoke 14 from private officers of smokers into non-smoking 15 areas, and it may actually serve to increase 16 restaurant and bar worker exposure for workers who 17 must work in the smoking areas which are now more 18 crowded, and in small restaurants while it reduces 19 restaurant patrons exposures overall. 20 To propose revision of the Smoke Free 21 Air Act extends the restrictions against smoking to 22 all restaurants regardless of size, and includes 23 restaurant bars. This is a much desired improvement. 24 However, the proposal still permits 25 smoking in private offices, in which only one person Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 187 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 works. Together these steps represent a quite modest 3 step forward. Because while the increased 4 restrictions will further reduce exposure to the 5 toxic wastes of tobacco combustion, they still will 6 permit workers to be exposed in bars in beverage 7 service, lounges and restaurants, and allow 8 secondhand smoke to be recirculated in office 9 buildings from smoking offices and discount the 10 persistence of tobacco smoke in the air of those 11 offices, as well as its deposition in re-emission 12 from room surfaces. 13 Moreover, the proposed bill as it 14 stands contains language which is dangerously 15 misguided, in my opinion. It is manifestly untrue 16 that new technology has been developed for dealing 17 with secondhand smoke. 18 These are claims which are cavalierly 19 made on the tobacco industry's web sites. At the 20 request of the Department of Health of the State of 21 California, I investigated those claims. I found 22 that engineering control measures, such as dilution 23 ventilation, displacement ventilation, or air 24 cleaning cannot conceivably control secondhand smoke 25 to acceptable levels of risk without tornado-like Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 188 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 levels of air flow. 3 These conclusions were endorsed by 4 the State of California, and my peer reviewed 5 57-page report is publicly available on the 6 California Department of Health's web site, which is 7 accessible through my web site at WWWREPACE.COM. 8 I strongly recommend that measurement 9 of the nicotine metabolite cotinine in the body 10 fluids of office, restaurant and barworkers, be made 11 to assess their secondhand smoke exposure and risk 12 before and after the imposition of any ETS controls 13 to evaluate their effectiveness. 14 Cotinine measurement is inexpensive, 15 is routinely made by insurance companies, and can 16 easily be coordinated by public health professionals 17 already on the City's payroll. 18 Such studies would show conclusively 19 that the hospitality industry workers represent one 20 of the most ETS-exposed groups of the workers in 21 society. 22 They deserve public health protection 23 and occupational health protection from a pollutant 24 condemned by all U.S. Occupational environmental and 25 public health authorities as a potent human Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 189 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 carcinogen and cardiovascular toxin. 3 Occupational health and safety 4 authorities in California banned all smoking in 5 offices and restaurants in 1995 and in all bars in 6 1998. 7 As Deleep Bal mentioned, California 8 tax revenue showed conclusively the hospitality 9 industry revenues have increased. 10 In Massachusetts in 1996, the number 11 of non-smokers who avoided smoky restaurants and 12 bars outnumbered the total number of smokers in the 13 state by 80,000. These results occurred because 14 three out of four U.S. adults don't smoke. 15 Moreover, in 1999, 65 percent of 16 Massachusetts non-smokers and 33 percent current 17 Massachusetts smokers favored smoke-free 18 restaurants. 19 It is time that the New York City 20 Council acted to rid its buildings of the plague of 21 secondhand smoke. It's good for public health, it's 22 good for worker health, and it is good for the 23 economy. 24 Don't listen to the propaganda of the 25 tobacco industry and the fellow travelers and the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 190 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 hospitality industry. You need to go smoke free all 3 the way. The public will thank you and it is your 4 solemn obligation as guardians of public health. 5 Thank you. 6 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 7 much. 8 I appreciate it, for you coming down. 9 Thank you very much. 10 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Next panel, 11 Mena Maguire, John Mulvey, Kerry Smith. 12 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Can we just, I 13 mean, folks, we still have close to 20 plus people 14 -- please, if your names are called, please come 15 down because in fairness to me, that I have sat here 16 through this whole hearing, and people coming in at 17 2:00, please folks, let's cooperate. 18 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Is Kerry Smith 19 and Mena Maguire here? If not, if we could have 20 Audrey Silk and Linda Stewart. 21 MR. MULVEY: Chairman Robles, 22 Councilman Oddo and other distinguished Council 23 members, I would like to thank you for allowing me 24 to testify about this very important issue affecting 25 my business, my family, my fellow restaurateurs and Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 191 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 my future. 3 My name is John Mulvey, and I am the 4 proprietor of Bridget's Public House, a family style 5 Irish Pub and Restaurant on Staten Island. 6 I recently opened my pub and 7 restaurant after operating a tavern for the past 8 seven years. 9 Over the past seven years I have 10 found that the tavern only business is a creature of 11 the past. You must combine both food and drink to 12 make a living in this industry. 13 I am sure that the members of the 14 City Council hear about the cost of doing business 15 in New York City every day of their lives. 16 Therefore, I would imagine that you would understand 17 any possible decreases in business would surely 18 result in many restaurant closings. 19 As Councilman Oddo knows, as 20 Councilman Oddo could tell you, Staten Island is a 21 very unique borough, we have a small, spread out 22 population and we are a hop, skip and a jump to New 23 Jersey where there are no smoking restrictions. 24 I attended the last Health Committee 25 hearing on the non-existent posed amendments, the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 192 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 1995 Smoke Free Air Act, and I often heard members 3 of the Committee talk about the number of 4 restaurants that had opened and how good they were 5 doing. 6 I think that the Committee should 7 also be reminded of the economic boom the City has 8 experienced in the past five years. 9 I also remember the Committee asking 10 to see factual members on other smoking bans in the 11 country. Today I am going to share with the Council 12 some of the facts and figures taken directly from 13 studies done in California, Massachusetts and Maine, 14 and their economic impact the smoking laws have had 15 on the restaurant and tavern industry. 16 The KPMG Peat Marwick study of 17 California in April of 1998 found that since the 18 smoking ban began, 59.3 percent of the businesses 19 saw a decrease in sales, with only 6.7 percent 20 seeing an increase. 21 Out of the 59.3 percent of the 22 businesses that saw a decrease, the average loss was 23 26.2 percent. 24 Bars and restaurants saw a decrease 25 of 47.4 percent in weekday customers, and 37.4 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 193 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 percent in weekend customers. 3 The study also found an increase in 4 customer fights and complaints, loss of regular 5 customers, and a decrease in tips and gratuities for 6 employees. 7 Another interesting fact was found, 8 that 3.7 percent of the establishments surveyed did 9 not enforce the law and 22.6 percent of the 10 customers ignored the law. 11 The study of economic impact of the 12 smoking ban in the City of Boston and Massachusetts 13 by phd's Sollars and Ingram in May of 1999, states 14 that for a restaurant tavern industry to conform to 15 the 1998 smoking ban, they will have to spend over a 16 million dollars to accommodate smokers and 17 non-smokers. 18 The study also finds that there was 19 an $8.9 million decline in earnings and a net 20 reduction of employment of 655 people. 21 The study that most resembles New 22 York City's amended law is the economic analysis of 23 Maine's smoking ban by California's Polytechnic 24 State University in May of 2000. 25 This study shows that when businesses Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 194 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 adopted smoking laws, they could no longer cater to 3 customer preferences and therefore there was a lack 4 of competition. 5 The study also shows that smokers 6 outspend non-smokers by double, stating that the 7 average smoker spends $146.53 a week in the 8 restaurants and taverns, whereas non-smokers spend 9 $76.72. 10 The study goes on to say that 40 11 percent of the smokers ate out less, and 50 percent 12 of those who did eat out were spending approximately 13 46 percent less time dining. 14 Those factors had a 30 percent -- 15 those factors had 30 percent of restaurant and 16 taverns reporting a 29 percent revenue loss. 17 Roper Starch Worldwide in June of 18 1998 reported 36 percent of the people surveyed 19 think that government has gone far enough 20 restricting smoking and 31 percent think that they 21 have gone too far. 22 Seventy-seven percent said 23 restaurants could accommodate both, and 80 percent 24 of the people feel that proper ventilation can solve 25 the problem. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 195 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The studies I have taken the facts 3 from can show you how we can be impacted if this 4 amendment was passed. 5 I don't think that any Councilperson 6 would be able to afford a 30 percent salary cut, nor 7 can I. 8 In conclusion, I ask the Council to 9 reconsider amending the 1995 Clean Indoor Act, a law 10 that is working the way it currently stands. 11 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 12 MS. SILK: Good afternoon. 13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Do you want to 14 push that mike a little closer, we can't hear you. 15 MS. SILK: Sure. 16 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Good. Start 17 again. 18 MS. SILK: Good afternoon. My name is 19 Audrey Silk. I am the founder of New York City 20 Citizens Lobbying Against Smoker Harassment, and 21 before anybody makes any kind of accusation, I have 22 no funding by the tobacco companies, I am not in 23 contact with them in any way, and they have not 24 contacted me. 25 If it is okay with you, I would like Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 196 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 to deviate from my testimony at the beginning to 3 answer some things that have been said. 4 Almost every programmed speech had 5 references to controlling adults' choice to smoke. 6 Councilman Freed kept saying how much she didn't 7 want people to smoke. Is this about the effects of 8 smoke on others or about how to control me for my 9 own good? They are proving to me that this is not 10 about protecting non-smokers, but protecting me from 11 myself. That's none of anybody's business, so every 12 reference to, well, we can have the people stop 13 smoking, that's not what this proposed legislation 14 is about, it shouldn't be about, but yet I believe 15 it's about, which brings me to Councilman Oddo. 16 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Don't go there. 17 MS. SILK: Please, I have to. 18 You missed the point by a mile. When 19 they sit there and tell you about well they are 20 coming for your steaks next, and you say, well, it 21 doesn't effect anybody, you missed the point. 22 Because these laws are intended to restrict me and 23 make me quit, you need to understand there are 24 groups out there that are trying to tell you not to 25 eat meat. Not that they are affected by you eating Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 197 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 meat, but for your own good not to eat meat, and 3 will tax your meat to subsidize fruits and 4 vegetables - that's the point when they say things 5 like that. 6 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: I am sure that 7 when you get finished he is going to ask to ask 8 questions. 9 MS. SILK: Yes. 10 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Just be prepared. 11 MS. SILK: I'm prepared. 12 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Move on. 13 MS. SILK: And that opera singer, 14 according to her testimony, her mother was a smoker, 15 back in that generation I am sure she smoked in the 16 house, and I consider it amazing that such a 17 beautiful voice can come from such a smoky house, if 18 she chooses to point out how she couldn't sing 19 because of smoke in a restaurant. Yet, her mother, I 20 am sure smoked in that house. So, explain to me how 21 that worked out. 22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: He will. 23 MS. SILK: People are giving you polls 24 all over the place. Well, I have one of my own, 25 whichever one you want to take, but you have to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 198 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 understand that there are different polls. 3 A Gallup poll conducted about four 4 months ago said 53 percent of people do not support 5 smoking restrictions in restaurants. 6 Council Member Michels wants to say 7 how other countries you can't smoke on their 8 airlines. That was not their choice. The USA, being 9 the bullies that they are, forced them not to have 10 smoking if they land on U.S. soil. Aeroflight 11 (phonetic) has fought that and won. So it is not 12 because they choose to, they are forced to by us. 13 As far as, well, I have a smoke-free 14 restaurant and I think it is wonderful, well, them 15 have a smoke-free restaurant. I don't understand why 16 you need restrictions at all. Let each owner choose, 17 and the ones who want to go to a non-smoking bar or 18 a restaurant, or work in a non-smoking bar or 19 restaurant will go there, and the ones that want to 20 go to a smoking one will go there, too, and 21 everybody will benefit, and now if it's okay, I will 22 go back to my testimony. 23 All right, I have some questions, 24 more. Some rhetorical and some I would like answered 25 when I am finished speaking. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 199 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 I assume you are basing this 3 proposal, like all other current smoking 4 restrictions, on the notion that secondhand smoke is 5 a real hazard, due mostly to the findings of the 6 1993 EPA report. What I would like to know is how 7 smoking bans are endorsed based on a study that was 8 ruled a fraud. 9 Federal Judge Osteen explained in his 10 decision that no matter what manipulation of science 11 it took, the EPA was determined to show that 12 secondhand smoke is harmful in an attempt to, and I 13 quote the judge, "influence public opinion". 14 The Congressional Research Service, 15 an arm of congress, substantiated Judge Osteen's 16 rule. Yet, none of this stops the anti-smoking 17 extremist from using this study to substantiate 18 their claims in order to demand "protection from 19 secondhand smoke". 20 They will say that no matter what 21 anyone says, they still stand behind the report. 22 Imagine someone holding up a contract 23 that a court deemed invalid and still demanding that 24 it be enforced; who would stand for that? 25 You should be highly insulted when Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 200 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 they hold up this study for proof in order to sway 3 you. 4 In the same light, although I am 5 sympathetic to the plight of the laryngectomy 6 victims, their health has nothing to do with 7 exposure to secondhand smoke. It may have been their 8 own smoking, I am not saying it is not, but this is 9 about exposing people to smoke, to bring them up 10 here and say that their problem has to do with that 11 is completely deceitful. 12 They parade children in front of you 13 who read statements that their parents wrote, or if 14 not, wrote in their own words what they were told to 15 say. 16 When I was a child I repeated my 17 parents' words also. I thought I sounded 18 sophisticated even though I really didn't know what 19 I was saying. 20 Are you aware of the 1998 World 21 Health Organization study that was a textbook 22 example of the right way to conduct epidemiological 23 studies? They concluded, and I quote, our results 24 indicate no association between childhood exposure 25 to ETS and lung cancer risk. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 201 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Have you considered the findings of 3 the empirical, as opposed to theoretical, evidence 4 of the Oak Ridge National Laboratory study? They 5 measured the actual exposure to ETS by having test 6 subjects wear devices that pump air through filters. 7 173 non-smoking people work as wait, 8 staff and bartenders, the ones you now claim you 9 want to protect, were fitted with these devices. It 10 concluded that this group of people is exposed to 11 far less secondhand smoke than the public presumes. 12 The exposure for these workers, who 13 were constantly in smoking environments, amounts to 14 the equivalent of six cigarettes per year. This 15 amount poses actually no risk to health. Blaming 16 children's asthma on secondhand smoke is 17 scientifically unjustified. 18 Just this last week several studies 19 were published regarding children and asthma and 20 wheezing and put the blame on factors other than 21 ETS. 22 One report of the increased risk of 23 asthma appears to be related to smoking during 24 pregnancy and not to the fact of exposure after 25 birth. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 202 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 They will tell you all about the 3 carcinogens and secondary cigarette smoke -- which I 4 am going to deviate from again. They are talking 5 about, oh, how much do you -- 6 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Again? 7 MS. SILK: Yes, again. 8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Oh, okay. 9 MS. SILK: They talked about how much 10 carcinogen comes off of the tip of a cigarette. You 11 have to put your nose to the tip of my cigarette to 12 get the carcinogen level they are talking about. 13 That is another way they are speaking about the way 14 they say things. Once it is inches away from my 15 cigarette is nothing like the way they want to tell 16 you it is. 17 Okay, I am back. 18 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Back to your 19 prepared remarks. 20 MS. SILK: Thank you. 21 They will tell you about all the 22 carcinogens -- 23 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: I want you to 24 know, the only reason I am letting you do that is 25 because my name was not mentioned, so you can go Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 203 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 right ahead. 3 MR. SILK: Oh. That's because, you 4 know, last time you were extremely fair. Extremely 5 fair, we appreciated that. We recognize that. 6 They will tell you all about the 7 carcinogens in secondary cigarette smoke. Yes, there 8 are carcinogens -- 9 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Excuse me, Mr. 10 Chairman. Is that a Snicker's Bar that you are 11 eating. Maybe we should ban those, too, next, 12 because that is where we are going. 13 MS. SILK: They are taking them out of 14 the kids' schools because they don't want them to 15 eat them. 16 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: That's for next 17 week's agenda. 18 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: You are out of 19 order, Councilman. 20 MS. SILK: You started it. 21 Yes, there are carcinogens, the same 22 as there are carcinogens in cooked food. Coffee has 23 at least 19 identifiable carcinogens, but people 24 aren't dropping dead from coffee, because it is the 25 dose that makes the poison. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 204 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 A person would need to smoke one pack 3 of cigarettes a day for 400 years to equal the 4 toxins produced by one jetliner take off. If they 5 ban smoking in airports and ventilate the terminals 6 with outside air. 7 So, I genuinely like to ask if you 8 are aware of these things, and if so, on exactly 9 what grounds do you discount them. 10 Who is running the City? Joe Cherner 11 and his coalition? How does one man on a mission 12 play such a large role in deciding New York City 13 policy for all New York City residents? 14 He certainly doesn't speak for me, a 15 Brooklyn resident, although South Brooklyn -- and 16 nobody voted him into office. 17 Have you bothered to look into the 18 secondhand smoke issue from both sides, or do you 19 merely take this health zealots word at face value? 20 How does the word of one man outweigh the 700 plus 21 letters I provided last year opposing smoking 22 restrictions. I brought you 700 letters. I am not 23 going to be dishonest and regret the same signatures 24 and give them to you again. They would do that. I 25 won't do that. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 205 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 I have explained how you should be 3 insulted and now I will explain how I am insulted. 4 How stupid do you think we are to believe that the 5 bars that are to be exempted in this legislation 6 will not be the next target at another time in the 7 near future, and that no amount of isolation of 8 smokers by way of separate rooms will be good 9 enough. 10 The Village Voice interviewed Joe 11 Cherner in December of '99, and they said, and I 12 quote, the crusader would like the City to finish 13 the job by banning smoking in restaurants with 35 14 seats or less, nightclubs and bars. Based on that 15 alone, I would have to be a full-fledged imbecile 16 not to see the writing on the wall with the passage 17 of further legislation at this time, believing it 18 will stop here. 19 It has been reported that Mr. Cherner 20 runs for City Council, so he is not going away. I 21 have more, and I am sorry he left, Council Member 22 Michels, the co-sponsor of this bill, had said, we 23 will continue this fight until nobody smokes. These 24 people really don't care about anybody but 25 themselves. They don't really care about employees, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 206 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 but use them as a shield for their own selfish 3 desires. Mr. Cherner and Mr. Michels are using 4 smoking bans in order to satisfy their own contempt 5 for adults who smoke by tyrannically limiting where 6 people can light up, hoping they will quit in 7 frustration. 8 By abusing his power to do so and the 9 warped impression that his morals should be my 10 morals, Mr. Michels wants to make my personal 11 choices for me. 12 People who care about others go out 13 of their way to find compromise and accommodation 14 for everyone involved. The anti-smoking advocates 15 will tell you it is the smokers who do not care 16 about others because we want to be able to quote, 17 spew our poison anywhere we'd like. 18 In response to that, first, they have 19 failed to prove unequivocally that secondary smoke 20 is harmful. 21 Secondly, there have been outdoor 22 smoking bans employed in other cities. I defy anyone 23 to produce one study that claims a risk to exposure 24 outdoors. What does that tell you about their 25 agenda? Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 207 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Thirdly, we are very open to 3 segregation so as not to annoy anyone with our 4 smoke. What we will not put up with is the treatment 5 that other groups in industry have been subject to. 6 By purposely engaging in legislation 7 that is part meant to stigmatize people, you are 8 knowing participants in the systematic creation of a 9 separate class bound for the receiving end of 10 politically sanctioned anti-social behavior. 11 I offer the following evidence to 12 substantiate this statement. 13 Uninvited persons holding 14 anti-smoking views directed these quotes at members 15 of an on-line smokers' rights advocacy group: I 16 quote. "Smokers are treated like low-life scum of 17 the earth because they are. There is no such thing 18 as being too rude to a smoker. Make justice with 19 your own hands and hit the smoker yourself." End the 20 quote there, and I apologize in advance for the 21 following quote. It is not my words but the words of 22 what the anti-smoking crusade has wrought. "Smokers 23 are the niconigger of 2000." With the approval of 24 this bill your fingerprints are all over the hate 25 that has and will be produced. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 208 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The fact that you want to tighten the 3 current Act, when once you said it was enough, is 4 all the proof we need to know that there is no end 5 to the demands for more smoking laws. 6 The major threat to our society today 7 is not cigarettes, but rather the example our 8 "leaders" are setting for our children - truth and 9 honor are not to be valued, that intolerance and 10 blatant self-interest are acceptable behaviors, and 11 I know you like to quote Lincoln. 12 "Prohibition...goes beyond the bounds of reason in 13 that it attempts to control a man's appetite by 14 legislation and makes a crime out of things that are 15 not crime... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the 16 very principles upon which our government was 17 founded." 18 Thank you for giving me so much time. 19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: I know that my 20 colleague has already requested to be heard. Let me 21 perhaps, and of course I thank you for it, because I 22 was wondering, waiting to see whether my name was 23 going to pop up, and it was nice that you said that 24 I am fair, and I try to be. I try to, as Chairman of 25 this Committee, while I may disagree or be of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 209 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 opposition position, I always allowed where everyone 3 should walk out of here knowing at least somebody 4 listens, and that is why I sit from the beginning to 5 the very end regardless of what. 6 However, let me just say that, just 7 to make you feel -- to set the record straight. 8 Without a doubt, even though we disagree with the 9 position he has taken for the moment, the Mayor is 10 in charge of the City of New York, and for the 11 moment that person happens to be Rudolf W. Giuliani, 12 and I even officially say that is the guy who runs 13 the City of New York. So, let's get that straight, 14 okay? 15 MS. SILK: You would plan to override 16 a veto. 17 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Excuse me? 18 MS. SILK: You would plan to override 19 a veto of his. 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: That may be so, 21 and I don't apologize, that's my right. That's the 22 beauty about Lincoln and about a government by the 23 people and for the people. So, on that aspect we 24 agree. 25 With respect to, and I am not here to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 210 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 defend him, he can defend himself, I think he has 3 done a tremendous job -- you see, I think the one 4 thing I try to do is, even when we disagree, you 5 have got to give respect to those who have been 6 consistent, even when we disagree. So, why should 7 Joe Cherner be any different from anybody else in a 8 Council that all of a sudden now says new blood, 9 everybody can run. If he wants to run, let him run, 10 that is what democracy is all about. 11 MS. SILK: Well, I am just saying he's 12 not going away. 13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: No, no, no. But 14 listen, I have to tell you, that I came here from 15 Puerto Rico at the age of one. I have been living in 16 North Brooklyn since that day. I have been blessed 17 by the people that elected me to the assembly, to 18 the council, that's why you say about override, 19 well, and I say it without any hesitation. The 20 people of my district did not support term limits, 21 so if a bill comes before me, I am voting for it and 22 I am on number three election. That's democracy. So, 23 I just want to make sure we understand that I hope I 24 try to allow people to take positions even when we 25 disagree on the positions, and as long as we do Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 211 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 that, the spirit of government continues to be 3 echoed by saying that ultimately. And that's why I 4 say, not now, I don't want to put you on the spot, 5 but I would like to know who your Councilperson is 6 -- 7 MS. SILK: Berman. 8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Herbie. Oh, okay, 9 very good. So, you have an area where people now are 10 also running for office. 11 Let me just say that I appreciate you 12 taking the time. Your testimony was extremely well 13 prepared and put together. 14 MS. SILK: Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Having said that, 16 I also believe that you must have a relative at the 17 Police Department because I see the shield. 18 Anyway -- 19 MS. SILK: That would be me, but that 20 is a separate issue. 21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Council Member 22 Oddo, since your name was mentioned you have the 23 right to ask questions. Two minutes, sir. 24 MS. SILK: Please, two minutes. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: First of all, I Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 212 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 think that Lincoln is spinning in his grave right 3 now, that you would refer to Lincoln in this cause. 4 I am sorry, I missed it. What medical 5 school did you go to? 6 MS. SILK: It doesn't matter what -- 7 if you are going to attack what my -- 8 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Okay, I just 9 thought I missed it because -- 10 MS. SILK: I am pulling it from other 11 studies. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Excuse me. You 13 get to respond to the question that I ask, that's 14 how we do it around here. 15 MS. SILK: Not when you put it like 16 that. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: For you to sit 18 there -- 19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let's start 20 again. I apologize, I have been sitting here without 21 eating, so I apologize if I am putting something in 22 my mouth. 23 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: For you to sit 24 there. 25 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Wait. Let's start Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 213 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 again. 3 Folks, just so you understand, the 4 Councilman has two minutes to ask a question, and 5 within that two minutes you respond. Whether you 6 agree or disagree. 7 MS. SILK: I apologize. 8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let us respect 9 ourselves from wherever we come from and who we are. 10 So, Councilman Oddo, let's start 11 again. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Okay. 13 For this witness to refer to folks as 14 "health zealots", I guess she means the Harvard 15 Medical School, University of California, Berkely 16 School of Public Health, the Journal of American 17 Medicine, these are the health zealots that she 18 points to in trying to refute these studies on 19 secondhand smoke. It absolutely blows my mind, it 20 amazes me that in the Year 2001 we are going to 21 fight this fight again about the dangers of 22 secondhand smoke. I am not even going to go there. I 23 am confident in the testimonies of Drs. Halperin and 24 Bal, I am not even going to try to refight that 25 fight, because I think we have won that fight, and I Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 214 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 think any attempts to refute that are disingenuous 3 at the very least. 4 This is the issue: You poo-poo my 5 comment about the fat and the steak. This is the 6 issue: Do whatever you want. Smoke as much as you 7 want. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't matter to 8 this Council. But when your behavior affects other 9 people, that's when government has a role. I have a 10 tobacco addiction. Me. I have a chewing tobacco 11 addiction. The difference between you, me and a 12 smoker is the smoker blows his cigarette smoke out, 13 and some are courteous, some don't give a damn. The 14 difference is, when I spit tobacco juice, I don't 15 spit it at you. I don't spit it at you in a manner 16 that you ingest it, and I don't impact your life. 17 But when the smoker blows his or her 18 smoke and impacts children and other adults, the 19 government most certainly has a role to step in. And 20 you know what, when the medical field comes out and 21 demonstrates time and time again the dangers of 22 secondhand smoke, government has a role to play when 23 that action takes place at public locations. 24 That's all I have to say, Mr. 25 Chairman. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 215 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Now, having said 3 that, would you like to -- 4 MS. SILK: Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Please. 6 MS. SILK: What don't you understand 7 about the World Health Organization's report? 8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Why don't we 9 respond and not ask the questions because it is the 10 other way around. So, let's go back to that again. 11 MS. SILK: It was a little rhetorical. 12 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: I understand 13 that. 14 MS. SILK: You claim that they bring 15 these health experts here and they are the ones who 16 know, and I know nothing because I didn't go to 17 medical school, I am telling you, the World Health 18 Organization who is equal and better to these people 19 who are paid to be here, has said they have found no 20 correlation between lung cancer and children exposed 21 to secondhand smoke. Why do you discount that? 22 You say that there are other Council 23 members here that don't care. Councilman Michels 24 actually does care. He doesn't want me smoking. He 25 said on a radio program to another smoker "I will Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 216 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 pray for you". It's none of his business. 3 There are people that are offended by 4 you spitting your tobacco juice. That is none of 5 their business. If they don't like it, they can walk 6 away. There is only five percent of the restaurants 7 left in this City where smoking is allowed. You have 8 95 percent, why is that not enough? If there are 9 workers that don't want to work in a smoke-filled 10 environment, they have 95 percent of the other 11 places to go find a job. And twenty-five percent of 12 the population smokes. That means 25 percent of the 13 bartenders and waitresses and waiters also smoke. 14 They would like to be in a place where they can 15 light up also on their breaks instead of going 16 outside. 17 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay. Thank you 18 very much. Thank you. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER CLARKE: Mr. Chairman? 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Council Member 21 Clarke. 22 COUNCIL MEMBER CLARKE: I just want to 23 -- 24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: You have two 25 minutes. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 217 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 COUNCIL MEMBER CLARKE: Yes. I just 3 want to say, I am the daughter of a tobacco grower 4 from the Island of Jamaica, and I am against 5 smoking. I can walk in a room and if somebody is 6 smoking in that room, my eyes start tearing right 7 away. So, I do not, you do not have the right to 8 smoke where it is going to offend me because your 9 right ends when it infringes on my right. That is 10 number one. 11 But number to, to be so dramatic in 12 your testimony, that you would use words that are 13 offensive to me -- 14 MS. SILK: I did not -- 15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Please, folks. 16 COUNCIL MEMBER CLARKE: You did not 17 say it, but you put it in there to be dramatic. You 18 put it in there to be the dramatic. The first time I 19 was called the "N" word coming in here to do my job 20 as an immigrant woman by the first time the police 21 officers demonstrated out there, and today you put 22 it in here for emphasis, okay? Somebody else said 23 it, and if you have respect for other people's 24 culture and their race you would not repeat it in 25 here, and I am offended twice. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 218 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Come on, folks. 3 Come on. 4 MS. SILK: It is people who have the 5 same attitude as you do about smoking who are using 6 that word to make a comparison, and that is what you 7 need to understand that is occurring. They are using 8 that word to make the comparison. 9 I am as offended as you are. I would 10 never think to use a word like that. You need to see 11 what is happening and be very upset with these 12 people who think like you, that are thinking a 13 little bit different than you and look at you the 14 same way as they are looking at smokers. 15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay, thank you 16 very much. 17 MS. SILK: Thank you. 18 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Dr. Ben Chu. 19 Karen Masure and Phil Konigsberg. 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: If you are going 21 to leave the Chamber, please do so quietly because 22 we still have a lot of people that are asking to 23 testify. 24 DR. CHU: I am Dr. Benjamin Chu. 25 Chairman Robles, Council Member Clarke, Council Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 219 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Member Oddo, thank you very much for the opportunity 3 to come and testify in support of a very important 4 bill to expand the significant public health 5 protections that the Council enacted in the Smoke 6 Free Air Act of 1995. 7 It has been a long time since I have 8 been in this Chamber to testify and I am going to 9 try and be very brief, primarily because I think the 10 last witness, the last panel aside, many of my 11 physician colleagues have amply demonstrated and 12 many of the literature, including the WHO report 13 that was cited before, in reexaminations of 14 secondhand smoke that it is truly correct, Council 15 Member Oddo, that there is no need I think to 16 refight that battle. I think that it is very clear 17 that secondhand smoke clearly is responsible for a 18 significant amount of disease and morbidity, and I 19 won't actually spend the time enumerating it, even 20 though I was prepared to do so. 21 I applaud the Council in your 22 leadership on this issue, and its determination to 23 protect the health of our citizens in the face of, I 24 think tremendous pressure to do otherwise throughout 25 the years. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 220 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 I am an internist by training with a 3 master's degree in public health, and I am currently 4 a Senior Associate Dean at the Columbia University 5 of College of Physicians and Surgeons. And in my 6 professional life, as some of you may know, I had 7 gained quite a bit of experience in a variety of 8 public health and public policy arenas, including 9 serving nearly four years as Senior Vice President 10 from Medical and Professional Affairs, for the New 11 York City Health and Hospital Corporation and the 12 period of time as Acting Commissioner of Health for 13 the New York City Department of Health. 14 Today I come to testify as the 15 Chairperson for the New York City Coalition for a 16 Smoke Free City. I also come before you as a member, 17 as Council Member Freed spoke about it so eloquently 18 before, as a family member who witnessed and 19 attended to a dying father in 1993, gasping for air, 20 suffering from a huge lung cancer, destructive lung 21 cancer, that developed after smoking for 50 years, 22 and after having picked up that smoking habit on the 23 World War II battlefield in Europe. 24 Let me just spend a minute to tell 25 you, the New York City Coalition for a Smoke Free Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 221 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 City is a partnership organization that works to 3 achieve a tobacco-free society in New York City. 4 We seek to mobilize the entire 5 community, voluntary health agencies, grassroots 6 organizations, medical and health societies, 7 governmental bodies, business and professional 8 groups, environmental groups, educational 9 association, and consumer groups to combat tobacco 10 use as the number one cause of preventable disease 11 disability and death in this country. 12 The Coalition's activity includes 13 education and promotion of a tobacco-free lifestyle 14 among adults and youth, advocacy for policies to 15 protect the common air from tobacco smoke pollution, 16 and protect young people from the undue commercial 17 pressures to use tobacco. 18 We are not advocates of imposing 19 guidelines on individuals where they choose to 20 smoke, but we firmly believe that a smoke-free 21 society is a healthier society. 22 The Coalition serves as an important 23 advisory capacity to the New York City Department of 24 Health in targeting tobacco control efforts and it 25 served as a convener of a platform for Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 222 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 tobacco-control interests in the City to come 3 together in order to craft a coordinated effort. 4 The current membership of the 5 coalition includes representation from the New York 6 City and New York State Departments of Health and 7 HRA, Lung Cancer and Heart Associations, smoke-free 8 educational services and scores and scores of 9 community-based and public health-oriented 10 organizations in the City. 11 Let me be very, very straightforward. 12 The compelling reason to pass Intro. 865 is very, 13 very straightforward. Secondhand smoke causes lung 14 cancer, heart disease, asthma and respiratory 15 diseases, and every worker in the City deserves a 16 safe, healthy and smoke-free work environment. 17 No one should have to breathe 18 something that causes disease in order to hold a 19 job. 20 Restaurant workers as a whole have 21 some of the highest rates of respiratory illnesses, 22 including lung cancer, as you have heard, from 23 previous medical testimony. Chronic exposure to 24 secondhand smoke undoubtedly contributes heavily to 25 this morbidity. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 223 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The public first learned that smoke 3 from other people's cigarettes causes disease in 4 1986 when the US Surgeon General, Dr. C. Everett 5 Koop reported that secondhand smoke was "a cause of 6 disease, including lung cancer, in healthy 7 non-smokers." Shortly after, the National Academy of 8 Sciences released an independent report that drew 9 the same conclusions. 10 Six years later, the Environmental 11 Protection Agency, EPA, also concluded that 12 secondhand smoke causes lung cancer and respiratory 13 disease. In fact, the EPA classified secondhand 14 smoke as a "Group A" carcinogen, and along with that 15 group is asbestos, benzene, arsenic and radon. 16 It is illegal to expose workers to 17 any Group A carcinogen, except tobacco smoke. And, 18 yet, tobacco smoke kills more people than all other 19 Group A carcinogens combined! And that is, I think, 20 a fact that we have to keep in mind. 21 So, in conclusion, and all of the 22 reputations of the secondhand smoke literature have 23 been actually countered by many, many organizations, 24 not just the EPA, the National Cancer Institute, the 25 World Health Organization, despite the previous Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 224 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 witnesses' testimony, and every major medical 3 organization in the world now agrees with the 4 overall conclusions of those reports. 5 So, I think it is safe to say that 6 secondhand smoke has been firmly implicated as a 7 causative agent in not just lung cancer but many, 8 many respiratory illnesses, and I think that since 9 it has been eliminated from all domestic and 10 international air flights, it has been eliminated 11 from many public buildings, and through the 12 courageous effort of the City Council in 1995, 13 eliminated from many restaurants in the City, that 14 it is really time to complete the job and really 15 protect the public in furthering this endeavor. 16 Thank you very much. 17 MR. KONIGSBERG: Good afternoon. 18 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Good afternoon. 19 MR. KONIGSBERG: About a year ago -- 20 my name is Phil Konigsberg, I live in Bay Terrace in 21 the 19th Council District. 22 Last February you held an oversight 23 committee hearing on the Smoke Free Air Act, and my 24 testimony then, as it is now, is that there is a 25 need and we need, as Council Members, need to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 225 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 further strengthen the existing Smoke Free Air Act. 3 I urge the Committee to recommend 4 that Intro. 865 be amended to make all workplaces 5 smoke free in New York City, including restaurants, 6 bars and nightclubs. So, I am recommending that you 7 further strengthen the law as it reads now, 865. 8 Since the Smoke Free Air Act became 9 law in 1995, more scientific data about secondhand 10 smoke has become known. Every major medical 11 authority in the world indicates that secondhand 12 smoke causes disease, yet we still hear the doom and 13 gloom predictions that some restaurants and bars 14 will go out of business if Intro. 865 becomes law. 15 Intro. 865 was introduced for public 16 health reasons and your judgment, after hearing all 17 the testimony, should be based on conclusive medical 18 findings, not on big tobacco's extensive and ongoing 19 economic disinformation per se. 20 In fact, several highly acclaimed and 21 documented studies have shown just the opposite of 22 the doom and gloom we have heard about today. 23 Since 1995 the restaurant business in 24 New York City has blossomed, more people are eating 25 out now than ever before. I loved it when we went in Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 226 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 1995 to make most of the restaurant smoke-free. I 3 have gone out and I think statistics show that. 4 The City Council voted overwhelmingly 5 in favor of the Smoke-Free Air Act of 1995, and 6 Mayor Giuliani signed the bill into law as he 7 promised he would in his campaign. 8 I hope that the current health 9 Committee members will amend Intro. 865 to include 10 all workplaces, that the City Council will pass the 11 law and that our Mayor change his current position 12 and sign the law when it reaches his desk. 13 One other comment, testimony was 14 given about the ventilation systems, and something 15 that I didn't hear brought up when they look into 16 this, all of these ventilation systems, what they 17 are doing is they are actually increasing the cost, 18 I believe, of the restaurants and the bars that are 19 going to put this in, because what you are doing is 20 in the summertime, when you have your locations, 21 your establishments air conditioned, you are pulling 22 all the air conditioned, the cool air out, so your 23 air conditioning systems, I believe, are going to be 24 working a lot harder, higher electric bills. The 25 same thing in reverse in the wintertime, when you Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 227 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 have your establishments heated and your ventilation 3 systems, it is going to pull all the heat, air out, 4 the warm air, and your costs will be quite 5 substantial. 6 Thank you very much. 7 MS. MASUR: Good afternoon. My name is 8 Karen Masur. I would like to begin by saying, for 9 those of you who are questioning my use of oxygen, I 10 am not now, nor have I ever been, a smoker. My 11 problem is due to a genetic inherited condition. I 12 cannot breathe well in smoky places. Even before I 13 required oxygen, secondhand smoke made me physically 14 ill. I am allergic to it as well. 15 Prior legislation has not fully 16 eliminated smoking from restaurants. Smoking only at 17 the bar does not solve the problem in result from 18 smoke butting against the dining area. The entrance 19 ways could be difficult to pass through, because you 20 have to pass through a sea of smoke. 21 As a result, there are certain 22 restaurants I can't even go into, because the dining 23 rooms are too smoky, even though they are considered 24 non-smoking areas. 25 I agree that restaurant workers Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 228 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 should not have to be exposed to this and neither 3 should the customers. 4 I am definitely for changing this to 5 be smoke-free restaurants. Although I have been 6 advised that today's focus is on restaurants and 7 bars, I just want to add that the situation in jazz 8 clubs and comedy clubs, as well as in hotels should 9 not be overlooked. 10 I hope that they are being addressed 11 separately. 12 Through the smoke-free organization, 13 I have learned that smoking legislation has gotten 14 tougher in other parts of the country, for example, 15 Denver, Colorado, thank you to Joe's E-mail. 16 In conclusion, I would like to say 17 breathe free New York. Better yet, breathe free USA. 18 Thank you very much. 19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 20 much. 21 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Alan 22 Silverberg. Scott Lubinsky. James Miller. Clair 23 Millman. 24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: All right, let's 25 go. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 229 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 MR. SILVERBERG: Is this on? 3 My name is Alan Silverberg. Before I 4 start, I want to say, I am also kind of sick of 5 hearing all of the Philip Morris ads about how they 6 buy oranges for poor people. So, I bought by Boycott 7 Kraft sticker, and I want to get it on camera. 8 And I want to say I am in support of 9 the law but I don't think it goes far enough. I also 10 think the law is inadequate right now. I see it 11 being violated. There is a restaurant near where I 12 live, I walk by, I see ashtrays in there. 13 I live in Astoria, in Speaker 14 Vallone's district where pretty much everyone 15 smokes, and the only place there that I will eat is 16 the Burger King, because I know that no one smokes 17 in there and they have a policy. 18 I think we need a complete smoking 19 ban in all the restaurants and in all public places, 20 all workplaces. We need to end the ambiguity and 21 loopholes and guarantee that all employees are 22 protected and that we can eat a safe and pleasant 23 meal or even go to a bar for drinks without having 24 to breathe smoke, or go bowling. 25 I just did some off-the-cuff Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 230 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 research, and I kind of figured based on population, 3 we probably have about 1,300 deaths in the City from 4 secondhand smoke, and the traffic deaths that are 5 very important that people are making a big deal 6 about, I happen to agree that they need to do 7 something about that, but I think, from what I found 8 they seem to kill about 500 people a year. So, I 9 think secondhand smoke is a much bigger issue. Not 10 even counting the people that just died from 11 smoking. And I am kind of disappointed in the media, 12 because they are not doing much to publicize the 13 smoking. Maybe it is because the ad money they are 14 getting from Philip Morris to try to make it like 15 they are really humanitarians. I just want to say, 16 in switching channels on the news last week, I saw 17 Joe Cherner about the guy with the carpet cleaner, 18 and it shows what a good humanitarian he is, but I 19 was disappointed that they didn't let him talk about 20 the smoke free legislation. It is too bad they are 21 not giving that more time. And I hope the Mayor 22 doesn't get this statement because I wrote something 23 not too nice about him, but I will leave it out. 24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: No, why don't you 25 leave it in so it will be on the record, because if Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 231 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 we are going to be truthful and honest, and if your 3 one thing is done, you cannot hide. 4 MR. SILVERBERG: Okay. 5 I wrote here that I think he is a 6 mean-spirited ego maniac who runs the City like a 7 dictator, but I did believe him when he claimed to 8 be concerned with quality of life issues, and the 9 biggest quality of life issues we have in this City 10 is secondhand smoke, and Mayor Giuliani is opposed 11 to protecting his constituents from this deadly 12 menace, and I just think it is very sad, I hope he 13 reconsiders. I want to say I urge the City Council 14 to pass this law and to consider amending it, to 15 strengthen it, and provide better enforcement. 16 We should have public education to 17 make people aware of their rights, and what they can 18 do to enforce them. And I wish you would hire, maybe 19 the Health Department could hire people to make sure 20 businesses are really complying with the law, 21 because I think the fines that would come out of it 22 would pay the salaries. And I like to see people 23 able to file complaints on the Internet and I wish 24 the police would enforce the law, because I heard 25 someone say that it is not really their Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 232 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 responsibility and maybe you can consider putting 3 that into the law, and hopefully after Mayor 4 Giuliani is out next year, maybe we can get stronger 5 legislation, if we can't do it now. 6 Thank you for your time and I hope 7 you will take my concerns into account. 8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 9 much. 10 Who is next? 11 MS. MILLMAN: Okay. I am Claire 12 Millman, I am President for the Alliance for Smoke 13 Free Air and probably of all the people presenting 14 testimony today, the person having been involved in 15 this prominent health issue the longest, 27 plus 16 years. 17 Throughout all of these years with 18 the initiation and subsequent strengthening of the 19 tobacco control legislation in New York City, Nassau 20 and Suffolk Counties, and New York State, I have 21 therefore heard all the opposition arguments, and 22 watched them all proven invalid as smoke free has 23 become justifiably the norm in many venues in our 24 environment. 25 And by the way, as I sat here today, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 233 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 none of those arguments has changed. 3 As we now stress the urgency and 4 necessity for totally smoke free restaurants 5 workplaces and other public places, further than the 6 present bill proposes, a wealth of health data from 7 more than 50,000 studies worldwide, economic data, 8 tourism data, sales tax data from cities where 9 smoke-free has been in effect for years, and all 10 valid public opinion polls, all overwhelmingly 11 support this action. 12 There is no safe level of exposure to 13 ETS. It is our single, most harmful, indoor air 14 contaminant, a Class A carcinogen, our number three 15 cause of preventable death, responsible in this 16 country for 3,000 to 4,000 lung cancer deaths, more 17 than 47,000 fatal heart attacks, 150,000 non-fatal 18 heart attacks and hundreds of thousands of new cases 19 of asthma and other respiratory illnesses among 20 non-smokers every year. It does not quickly clear 21 from a room. 22 It can take two weeks for the toxin 23 nicotine to clear from the air where smoking has 24 occurred in the room. 25 The tobacco industry's own internal Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 234 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 document revealed that it knew from its own testing 3 started in the mid-1970s, that sidestream smoke was 4 biologically active, quote, that is carcinogenic. 5 They took steps to hide these 6 findings while publicly denying the hazards. I wish 7 that that smoker had still been here because I would 8 like her to have been told to just go to the tobacco 9 documents, the internal documents, and she would get 10 all the information that the Health Community has 11 been projecting now, but the tobacco industry knew 12 it long before our Health Community did. And it is 13 all documented there in the Mayoral internal 14 documents. Ironically, that's where she would find 15 the health hazards of smoking and ETS specifically 16 delineated. 17 Laws mandated smoke-free restaurants, 18 workplaces and public places are a major factor in 19 reducing social acceptability of smoking benefitting 20 all our society. 21 While protecting non-smokers from the 22 toxic and carcinogenic fumes, the laws provide 23 incentives for smokers to quite, and send a message 24 to all, including teams that smoking is a killer. 25 A recent report in the American Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 235 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Journal of Public Health confirms that policies 3 prohibiting smoking in the workplace help employees 4 to quit. Additional studies show that where there 5 are strong smoking restriction laws covering public 6 places, there are larger percentages of smoke-free 7 homes. 8 After the last strengthening of 9 smoke-free restrictions and the subsequent reports 10 of New York's booming tourists and restaurant 11 business, a major New York newspaper addressed the 12 gloom and doom predictions proven invalid that had 13 come from the opposition with an editorial caption 14 "No, Chicken Little, the sky did not fall." 15 Restaurateurs should rise above the 16 smoke screen, avail themselves of the facts, and 17 show concern for the health of their patrons and 18 employees. 19 Victor Crawfit, tobacco executive, 20 who was dying of lung cancer and wanted to confess 21 all before he died went public on a major TV program 22 and confirmed that the tobacco industry's strategy 23 was to shift the focus from the health issue, which 24 they couldn't defend, to business instilling fear 25 among the business people so they would oppose Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 236 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 smoke-free restrictions. 3 Smoking is prohibited all these years 4 in the R.J. Reynolds Cigarette Factory to protect 5 their machinery. Our human machinery is certainly 6 entitled to the same protection. 7 Going entirely smoke-free saves 8 lives, protects against disease and costs nothing. 9 Effective strengthening, and we are saying here 10 totally smoke free in the workplace, as in all 11 workplaces, which are bars, as well as private 12 offices. 13 Effective strengthening of the New 14 York City Clean Indoor Air Act will be a major step 15 toward protecting the public health from this 16 epidemic of suffering, disease and death. And now, 17 as I sat here today, of course I was taking a lot of 18 input of what was the pros and the cons, and I am 19 sorry that Council Member DiBrienza is not present, 20 because I wanted to say to him when in the face of 21 any other epidemic of disease, when the remedy 22 becomes known, do we ignore the remedy, which is 23 totally smoke free here, and it is easy. 24 This is progress in health 25 protection. In accordance with the progress and Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 237 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 knowledge of the hazards of ETS, with the 3 ever-growing mountain of irrefutable evidence 4 worldwide. And by the way, this issue is being 5 actively addressed worldwide. I have pictures, I 6 travel. This is from Spain, okay? Spain. Addressing 7 the hazards of secondhand smoke, that it kills, that 8 it is killing everybody, that our health is going up 9 in smoke, as it says here, translation. I majored in 10 Spanish. 11 This is from China. Above one of the 12 cigarette ads, it says smoking harms yourself an 13 others, took a picture of that. 14 This is from Switzerland, in a 15 restaurant. One side German, no smoking section. The 16 other side, French, because of course Switzerland 17 has a number of languages there, there is French, 18 German and Italian. 19 I returned from Mexico, I stayed in a 20 smoke-free room in a hotel, a non-smoking room in 21 the hotel, I ate in the non-smoking sections in 22 restaurants, the world is responding to the need to 23 fight this epidemic, and while, as it was said by 24 the health advocates before me, they are far behind 25 us, they are struggling and taking their lessons Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 238 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 from us and guidance from us, and of course, the 3 studies that have been presented worldwide, not just 4 from the USA. 5 The opposition uses the word 6 "hospitality". In this case their hospitality 7 translates to sanctioning a Class A carcinogen to 8 assault their patrons and employees. 9 We would have hoped that the 10 opposition would rise above the smoke screen and 11 understand that all through these years we have made 12 progress, but it is time to go further in 13 conjunction with the knowledge that has come forth 14 since the last act was put through, enacted. And, 15 so, we need to do bigger and better now. And I thank 16 you so much. 17 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 18 MR. LUBINSKY: My name is Scott 19 Lubinsky. 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Why don't you 21 push the mike closer because we need you to get on 22 tape. 23 MR. LUBINSKY: My name is Scott 24 Lubinsky. I am here on behalf of the Grey Dog, which 25 I operate as their independent business consultant. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 239 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 My notes are made from here, I will 3 supply them to you when I leave, but the reason I 4 have nothing prepared is I got a call early this 5 morning and the owner, Dave, was not able to make 6 it, because of the restraints his small business has 7 today. 8 In short, just so we paint the 9 picture, the Grey Dog falls under the 35-seat 10 exemption clause, they serve coffee, it is a 11 restaurant with beer and wine as well. 12 The difference, and I guess this is a 13 little symbolic, is that we fall into a gray area. 14 It is not black and white between a bar or a 15 restaurant. Where we fall in is a very specific 16 environment, where we have come into play is the 17 social drinker going for one drink, the restaurant 18 has the capacity for non-smoking and smoking as 19 well, where we have put in a ventilation system. 20 That being said, undisputably, smoking kills you, 21 and it is bad. That's not why we are here. 22 The issue here, and I have heard a 23 lot said, a lot of anti-smoking rhetoric, a lot of 24 personal grief and a lot of statistics relating to 25 California. New York is not California. If we were Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 240 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 putting an all across ban, we would not be here. We 3 are only looking for us to have a competitive 4 business environment, and when you look at the words 5 that Washington has said up there, our commercial 6 policy, should hold an equal and impartial hand. Can 7 we see it up there? 8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: The lights 9 prevent us from seeing it. So, why don't you keep 10 telling us what it says. 11 MR. LUBINSKY: Sure. Well, again, if 12 no one heard it, it says our commercial policy 13 should hold an equal and impartial hand. And, 14 essentially, I don't know if any of you have been in 15 the restaurant business, primarily our business 16 greatest profit margins are made in the evening when 17 we are serving beer and when we are serving wine. 18 And if you strolled around the West Village, there 19 are umpteen millions of places that people are just 20 going to get up and leave and go to, to get their 21 beer and wine because they can smoke a cigarette 22 with that. And essentially that isn't a fair playing 23 field. 24 We believe we can compete equally, if 25 bars have the same policies. If they don't, we are Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 241 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 going to find ourselves, maybe not out of business 3 this year, maybe not out of business next year, but 4 will happen is our margins decrease, and as more and 5 more Starbucks move in, with a heavy hand of 6 advertising, we will be out of business in three 7 years, and the Village that we have grown to love, 8 because of its so unique character, is not going to 9 be there anymore. And that is all we are here to 10 say, give us a level playing field, and, hey, I 11 don't want anybody else to die, that is fine with 12 us, but make it a level playing field. 13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 14 much. 15 Thank you, I appreciate it. 16 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Eileen Weiss. 17 Dave Palmer. Harold Taylor. 18 MS. WEISS: Hi. My name is Eileen 19 Weiss. I am here on behalf of two restaurant workers 20 who live in my building who couldn't be here today 21 and myself, and they asked me to read letters they 22 wrote to the City Council on their behalf. 23 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: With all due 24 respect, we still have a lot of people. What I would 25 be willing to do is to enter into the record, have Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 242 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 you testify on your own behalf, and then indicate 3 either the person is in support or against, and we 4 will make sure that it is entered into the record. 5 MS. WEISS: Well, the one person was 6 going to be here but she is six months pregnant and 7 she couldn't make it. 8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: My dilemma is 9 that when I start this everybody is going to accuse 10 me of playing favoritism, and, so, so far, everybody 11 who is left now is for, I just don't need to be 12 accused of taking sides. 13 MS. WEISS: Okay. My boyfriend Rick is 14 a musician, and among other things he has a band 15 Kitty Hawk, that plays frequently around the City. I 16 am extremely worried about his health because of the 17 amount of secondhand smoke he is forced to inhale at 18 the venues where he plays. 19 Most of my friends who adore the 20 music will not come out to these clubs because they 21 are just too smoky. When I have gone to support the 22 band, by the end of the 45 minute sets, I am choking 23 on smoke. My clothes and hair stink to high heaven 24 and it costs more to dryclean than it would to buy 25 two beverages in a smoke-free environment. Plus, it Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 243 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 is unconscionable that the people who work in these 3 places do not have a choice. 4 I watched Vic's father die of lung 5 disease. In the end he was depressed, miserable and 6 in pain. Nobody should have to suffer like this just 7 because they want to work as a waiter or a 8 bartender. Nobody should be forced to have to 9 breathe smoke to have a job. 10 Too many close friends and relatives 11 have died from lung disease, and I know that they 12 would have lived longer if smoking had not been 13 permitted in the workplace. 14 As I told my Councilperson Phil Reed, 15 I eat out 95 percent of the time. I cook about as 16 well as James Oddo sings, I think, and I simply will 17 not patronize restaurants that are smoky, even two 18 that are right across the street from where I live, 19 because when you enter you must pass through a smoky 20 bar, and the smoke lofts into the dining area. 21 Before these venues became 22 restaurants with bars I did eat at them a lot, and I 23 have not gone back since they remain smoky, and I 24 certainly won't bring children into these places. 25 Remember, smoking is not a birth Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 244 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 right like race or gender or the right to breathe 3 clean air. It is a choice, it is an acquired 4 addiction that destroys and kills millions of 5 Americans every year. 6 Please do the right thing for my 7 roommate Kelly, whose testimony I have with me, for 8 my boyfriend Rick, for me, for my neighbor Jackie 9 Wheeler, who is six month pregnant and works in a 10 restaurant, and is suffering from respiratory 11 disease, and all those who can only make a living by 12 working where smoking is currently permitted. Please 13 pass this legislation. 14 Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Do you want to, 16 for the record, just on record the names and give to 17 the Sergeant-At-Arms the testimony? 18 MS. WEISS: Okay, I have testimony 19 from Jeffrey Wheeler, and from Kelly McGuire. 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: And they are for 21 Intro? 22 MS. WEISS: They are in support to 23 pass the legislation. 24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 25 much. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 245 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 MS. WEISS: Thank you. 3 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay, sir. 4 MR. TAYLOR: My name is Harold A. 5 Taylor. I am affiliated with Joe Cherner and Tobacco 6 Free Education, and the American Cancer Society. 7 I would like to respond to something 8 that the young lady said earlier. I am a 9 laryngectomy. I have never heard one person say 10 that secondhand smoke causes laryngectomies. I would 11 also like to say that that young lady is very deeply 12 in denial. 13 I have a word for restaurant owners, 14 bar owners and smokers, I pray that not even one of 15 you is naive enough to believe that the politicians 16 that vote against tobacco legislation have even one 17 of you in mind, because these legislators have only 18 the tobacco industry in mind as payback for the 19 bribery money that they have accepted from the 20 tobacco lobby in the past, and are still accepting 21 today. 22 America's problem begins with the 23 tobacco industry and America's problem must end with 24 the tobacco industry. 25 After I testify in the United States Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 246 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 House of Representatives, and the United States 3 Senate I was told by some people that my choice of 4 words was too strong, since Congress allowed Senator 5 McCain's bill to die, I am surer than ever that 6 everything I said was true, especially the part 7 about congress is at least as responsible as the 8 tobacco industry for the 470,000 annual American 9 tobacco-related deaths. 10 I now must change my text to say 11 Congress is now partly responsible for every kid who 12 lights up for the first time. For decades there has 13 been scientific and medical research that proves 14 without a doubt that cigarettes are habit forming 15 and cigarettes are killers. Congress allowed the 16 tobacco industry to deny this by lying to the 17 public. 18 Congress allowed the tobacco industry 19 "CEOs" to lie to a congressional committee by 20 denying that they knew that cigarettes are killers 21 and cigarettes are addictive. Not even one "CEO" has 22 ever been tried for perjury, and not even one 23 congressperson has ever been tried for accepting 24 bribes. 25 The legislation necessary to stop the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 247 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 tobacco industry from lying to the public will fit 3 on one page, this legislation would sound something 4 like: "If you cannot prove it through research, you 5 cannot say it." 6 The legislation necessary to stop the 7 influence of tobacco lobby bribery money on 8 elections will fit on one sheet of paper. This 9 legislation would sound something like: "Any 10 legislator that accepts tobacco industry bribery 11 money, will never be allowed to vote on any 12 legislation related to the tobacco industry. For as 13 long as that legislator remains in office. 14 Democracy is almost dead. The actions 15 of congress has placed "democracy" on the critical 16 list, soon to become terminal. At one time congress 17 voted on what was right and fair for each American, 18 but today congress votes on where the bribery money 19 leads. 20 Over the years I have always heard 21 bar owners and restaurant owners defend the 22 so-called rights of non-smokers - but I have never 23 heard owners defend the true rights of "smokers." 24 And this more importantly includes bar and 25 restaurant employees. Owners conveniently forget Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 248 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 that "secondhand smoke" causes 53,000 American 3 deaths annually. 4 I am sure that if bar owners and 5 restaurant owners were ever forced to choose to 6 cater to either smokers or non-smokers, the choice 7 would be to cater to non-smokers. Merely because 8 there are three times as many non-smokers. 9 You might look at me and say: "He 10 doesn't look that bad to me," but what you cannot 11 see is what is really wrong with me. I will give you 12 a short list. I no longer have a sense of smell; I 13 no longer have a sense of taste; I breathe through 14 the permanent hole in my neck, this means that I 15 never ever breathe through my mouth, and I never 16 ever breathe through my nose. 17 I have a word for smokers: "The 18 longer a person smokes, the deeper in denial a 19 smoker becomes; the deeper in denial a smoker 20 becomes, the harder a smoker fights the truth. The 21 harder a smoker fights the truth. 22 For many years, because of denial on 23 my part I went around thinking to myself that 24 tobacco-related illnesses can only be happening to 25 other people. Well, I became other people, and I Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 249 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 became other people because of my denial. 3 Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 5 much. 6 MR. PALMER: Hello. My name is Dave 7 Palmer. I am the NYPIRG government reform advocate, 8 but I am here today to testify on behalf of Blair 9 Horner, who couldn't make it down from Albany today, 10 and I apologize for that. 11 Blair is the Legislative Director of 12 the New York Public Interest Research Group. 13 NYPIRG is a statewide nonpartisan 14 not-for-profit research and advocacy organization 15 that has long been active in a wide range of issues, 16 including efforts to protect the public from the 17 health hazards posed by tobacco smoke. 18 Blair has served as a member of the 19 Commission for a Healthy New York, an entity 20 established by former Governor Mario Cuomo, and 21 continued by Governor Pataki to advise state 22 government on strategies that deal with the harm 23 caused by tobacco products. 24 As you know, NYPIRG support New York 25 City 1995 Smoke Free Air Act. We believe that it was Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 250 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 a significant step toward protecting the public from 3 health hazards of environmental tobacco smoke. 4 In light of the recent evidence that 5 the enactment of the law has not hurt the restaurant 6 industry, and the growing scientific evidence of the 7 harm posed to non-smokers exposed to tobacco smoke, 8 NYPIRG urges you to support the legislation that 9 strengthens New York City's Smoke Free Air Act. 10 There are important reasons to 11 strengthen the law. 12 One, the scientific evidence is clear 13 that exposure to tobacco smoke can cause illness and 14 disease for nonsmokers. 15 Secondhand tobacco smoke is deadly to 16 all who breathe it. ETS causes more death in the 17 United States than all other known environmental 18 toxins combined, and it causes or exacerbates an 19 estimated 300,000 cases of respiratory distress. 20 Nationwide up to 11,000 children are 21 sickened and 105 people die each day from ETS. 22 Many studies have been conducted to 23 test the effects of second-hand smoke on Americans, 24 their evidence is unanimous. 25 We know now that ETS harms Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 251 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 non-smokers, including children, causing lung 3 cancer, heart disease and multiple respiratory 4 problems. 5 I am going to skip the next two pages 6 of the testimony, but I will just note, we cited 7 numerous studies by different governmental and 8 non-for-profit organizations. You have our testimony 9 and each study is footnoted at the bottom. 10 The second major reason that we think 11 it is important to strengthen this law, there is no 12 credible evidence that smoke-free restaurant 13 legislation harms the industry. States and other New 14 York localities have smoke-free restaurant laws and 15 regulations that are more stringent than New York 16 City's current law, and have found no adverse 17 economic effects on restaurant business after those 18 laws went into effect. 19 For example, California has enacted 20 legislation that makes the state's restaurants and 21 bars 100 percent smoke-free. Numerous localities 22 across the country have also passed smoke-free 23 regulations. I heard you mentioned that. I heard it 24 mentioned today. For example, a study of paired 25 sized match communities found no adverse effects on Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 252 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 restaurant sales and revenues in 15 localities in 3 California and Colorado. 4 The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation 5 has funded studies to test smoke-free regulations in 6 Massachusetts. The studies comparing restaurant 7 revenue in cities before and after the imposition of 8 local smoke-free ordinances in the state included 9 that the restaurant revenue had actually risen four 10 percent. 11 A recent study was also conducted to 12 assess the economic impact of the Erie County Clean 13 Air Act that bans smoking in all restaurants 14 effective January 1st, 1998. 15 The study assessed the effects on the 16 restaurant industry in Erie County by examining 17 restaurant employment and payroll statistics. 18 The researchers concluded that Erie 19 County Clear Air Act had no adverse economic impact 20 on its restaurant industry. 21 This study is also worth noting, 22 because compared to New York City's economy, Erie 23 County's is much smaller and less prosperous and yet 24 has a more stringent anti-smoking law that still has 25 not had any negative effects on Erie County's Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 253 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 restaurant business. 3 Additionally, Roswell Park Cancer 4 Institute completed a study on economic effects of 5 the 1995 law on New York City. They found that 6 taxable sales from eating and drinking places and 7 hotels in New York City increased since the ban went 8 into effect. All the taxable sales for eating and 9 drinking establishments in the rest of New York 10 State were essentially flat. 11 In sum, the evidence is clear, ETS 12 harms non-smokers. Clearly there is a need for a 13 more comprehensive law to protect the public, 14 particularly those who patronize or work in small 15 restaurants. 16 More comprehensive laws have been put 17 into effect banning smoking in all restaurants and 18 have been proven to have no negative effects on the 19 restaurant industry or other parts of the nation, of 20 the state and nation. 21 Intro. No. 865 introduced by Speaker 22 Vallone and 20 co-sponsors provides the long-awaited 23 improvements to the 1995 law, that the public 24 deserves in order to protect them from the dangers 25 of ETS. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 254 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Everyone deserves a smoke-free work 3 environment, and this proposed legislation would 4 make all restaurants and most offices completely 5 smoke free. 6 NYPIRG urges that the Council listen 7 carefully to the overwhelming evidence in favor of a 8 Smoke Free Air Act in New York City, and I urge you 9 to once again lead the way in protecting the health 10 of the public from the hazards of ETS by passing 11 Intro. 865 into law. 12 Thank you for the opportunity to 13 testify. 14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 15 much. 16 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Serena 17 Goldstein. Philip Adams. Sherry Mills. Andrew 18 Hysell. Tim Filler. Michael Seserman. 19 MR. SESERMAN: Good afternoon. My name 20 is Michael Seserman. I am the State Director of 21 Tobacco and Program Services for the American Cancer 22 Society. ACS is the nation's leading voluntary 23 health organization dedicated to reducing the burden 24 of cancer. 25 Prior to joining ACS, I worked for Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 255 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 the Centers for Disease Control and prevention in 3 the office on smoking and health. I am here today to 4 speak in strong support of Intro. 865 and air free 5 of cancer-causing tobacco smoke. Approximately 6 one-third of all cancer is attributed to tobacco and 7 these cases are completely preventable. 8 Consequently reducing the effects of 9 tobacco is a major priority for the American Cancer 10 Society. I had quite a bit in my prepared statement, 11 but I don't want to beat a dead horse here. You have 12 heard it, you have my written testimony. What I will 13 focus on are some other points that were brought up 14 and some additional points. 15 So, why should you support an 16 expansion of the current law? 17 Smoking bans like this can do more to 18 prevent cancer and heart disease and other 19 conditions, more than anything else you could 20 probably do, and I will tell you why. And by the 21 way, I want to say that cancer is -- heart disease 22 is the leading cause of death and cancer is the 23 second leading cause of death, and these conditions 24 are extremely costly to all of us. We pay for the 25 health care costs relating to treating people with Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 256 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 these conditions and that speaks to something the 3 smoker was saying before, that it obviously does 4 effect all of us and it's the government's role to 5 get involved. 6 So, anyway, why is this so important? 7 One, to protect all workers, all bartenders, all 8 office workers. Restaurant and bar workers are at 9 serious risk of tobacco-related disease as a result 10 of intensive and long-term exposure to secondhand 11 smoke. 12 Studies have shown a 50 percent 13 increase in lung cancer risk among food service 14 workers that is attributable to tobacco smoke. 15 So, as you have heard before, people 16 should not have to breathe carcinogens and put their 17 health at risk to earn a living. 18 Government has a responsibility to 19 protect all workers from occupational hazards. 20 Current law does not allow benzene or asbestos or 21 other carcinogen exposure on the job. Why is there 22 an exception for tobacco smoke, given what we now 23 know about its effects. 24 Two, to protect children. I want to 25 point out there that even smokers are protecting Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 257 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 their children from secondhand smoke. 3 A survey was conducted that showed 4 that about 50 percent of smokers are restricting 5 tobacco use in the home to avoid exposure to 6 secondhand smoke among family members. But we know 7 that the opposition had talked about, well, there 8 should be choices. 9 Well, we know that children are not 10 given the choices that adults have. Children are at 11 greatest risk of ETS, because they are often not 12 able to remove themselves of areas of pollution. 13 Children with asthma, for example, 14 have an especially high risk of health problems due 15 to ETS. When children with pre-existing asthma are 16 exposed to secondhand smoke, it can increase their 17 asthmatic episodes and the severity of symptoms. 18 And you have heard statistics about 19 this, I won't go on about it. But children should 20 not be placed at risk when eating out. 21 I will not bring my children into a 22 restaurant and expose them to carcinogens. 23 Three, to promote quitting and 24 support people trying to quit, smoking kills 25 approximately 13,000 adults in New York City each Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 258 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 and every year, and this costs the City millions in 3 Medicaid expenditures. 4 There is strong evidence that 5 restricting smoking in the workplace increases quit 6 rates. 7 This legislation would support the 8 City's multi-million dollar effort to reduce 9 smoking, and it should be supported. 10 Four, reduce youth smoking and future 11 addiction, disability and death. Restricting tobacco 12 use in public places is a powerful message to youth 13 and parents about not smoking around other people. 14 And this is very important. 15 A recent study just came out last 16 year that found that communities with strong laws 17 restricting smoking have a significantly lower rate 18 of youth smoking. So, not only are you protecting 19 people from exposure to secondhand smoke, but you 20 are helping to reduce youth smoking and rates of 21 initiation. So, you are helping future generations 22 and preventing future addiction. 23 Laws like this help to normalize 24 tobacco use among youth and counter more than $6 25 billion in tobacco advertising and promotions spent Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 259 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 each year. That is why the tobacco industry in its 3 front groups are so opposed to them. Smoke free 4 policies work. 5 And, finally, to reduce tobacco 6 industry manipulation and deception. The health 7 rationale is crystal clear. You have the evidence 8 right here. However, the tobacco industry continues 9 to use its fast financial resources to manipulate 10 the political process, public opinion and 11 distractions from the central issue, health. 12 The industry paid lobbyists and front 13 groups to oppose these laws because they are 14 concerned about having fewer addicted smokers and 15 lower profits. That's their concern. 16 The following statement from the 17 industry's own documents support this fact. "Smoking 18 bans are the biggest challenge we have ever faced. 19 Quit rates go from five percent to 21 percent when 20 smokers work in non-smoking environments." Already 21 they must replace about 2 million smokers a year, 22 about 25 percent of whom have died from the 23 addiction. Moreover, industry documents show how 24 they have tried to discredit scientific research 25 here and abroad. That same approach is still being Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 260 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 used in spite of strong scientific evidence that ETS 3 causes cancer and heart disease and that smoking 4 bans do not reduce restaurant profits. 5 A lower lard (phonetic) memo 6 discusses plans to have consultants mobilize 7 restaurant owners to lobby the Mayor. The memo 8 discusses having cigarette company executives lobby 9 the Mayor. 10 So, we see by the industry's own 11 documents there is a strong effort to, there has 12 been and there continues to be a strong effort to 13 influence the political process. In fact, they spent 14 over $1.2 million during the last campaign. 15 Industry documents also show how they 16 have tried to discredit and compromise health 17 research here and abroad. That same approach is 18 still being used in spite of strong scientific 19 evidence that ETS causes cancer and heart disease 20 and that smoking bans do not reduce restaurant 21 profits. 22 The American Cancer Society 23 respectfully asks that you support this bill and 24 show that the influence of industry money does not 25 win out over the health of New Yorkers. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 261 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Thank you. 3 MR. FILLER: Good afternoon, Mr. 4 Chairman, and distinguished members of the Council. 5 I will try to keep my remarks brief, understanding 6 that we are late into the day. 7 My name is Tim Filler, Associate 8 Director at Americans for Non-smokers' rights. We 9 are based in Berkely California. We have members 10 across the country. 11 The Board, the members, the staff of 12 Americans for non-smokers rights have been working 13 for more than 20 years to protect people from 14 unwanted exposure to secondhand smoke and to shine 15 the light on the tobacco industry as it tries to 16 undermine sound health policy. 17 We support the New York City Council 18 efforts and willingness to address the issue of 19 smoke-free air in workplaces and restaurants, and we 20 applaud the Council members who support smoke-free 21 air. First of all, we revisiting and expanding the 22 ordinance is the right thing to do from a public 23 policy perspective. As the first and foremost duty 24 of government is to protect the safety and welfare 25 of its citizens. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 262 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The science is conclusive and 3 overwhelming. More than 100 scientific studies 4 documented to set death and disease attributable to 5 secondhand smoke, and we have heard a lot about them 6 today and I don't need to go into as many details 7 because you have heard a lot about them already. 8 The only voices of uncertainty on 9 this issue come from the tobacco industry and its 10 consultants, funded by big tobacco specifically to 11 cloud the debate and to continue the appearance of 12 controversy regarding the health risks. 13 Strong, local smoke-free air policies 14 have proven time and time again to have no negative 15 impact in terms of economics on hospitality sales, 16 jobs, tourism or otherwise. 17 I am sure you will hear more about 18 this topic from a number of other experts today as 19 we have already and as we will coming up, but I 20 wanted to touch briefly upon this issue today as 21 well. 22 Sound, unbiased economic impact 23 studies of the effect of clean indoor air policies 24 consistently show that food and beverage sales do 25 not decrease in eating establishments due to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 263 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 smoke-free air ordinances. 3 Big tobacco and its front 4 organizations attempt to misrepresent this issue as 5 well. I trust that members of this body will be 6 savvy enough to see through the smoke screen. Bogus 7 tobacco sponsored economic impact studies rely on a 8 few standard slights of hand to skew the results and 9 to create the appearance of negative economic 10 impacts. 11 What are the tell-tale signs of a 12 bogus study? First, these bogus studies are based on 13 hospitality owners perceptions, whether or not the 14 business has lost sales, rather than actual sales 15 data. 16 Also, these skewed studies can rely 17 upon data that does not allow long enough of a 18 period of time to take into account seasonal 19 fluctuations in food sales, and/or longer term 20 trends in the retail sector. 21 So, I urge Council members to look 22 closely at these considerations as they evaluate the 23 economic facts and figures that will be thrown at 24 them during this dialogue today and in the next few 25 months. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 264 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The work of this City Council on this 3 issue and the proceedings today are a significant 4 step toward further protecting the health of 5 residents and visitors of New York. 6 I must sound a note of caution, 7 however, regarding section 17-513.2, the creation of 8 a task force that would report on new ventilation 9 technology. 10 This task force specifically would 11 play into the hands of the tobacco industry. 12 Last year Philip Morris rolled out 13 its options program, which purports to address 14 concerns of smoking through ventilations 15 "solutions". 16 However, by their own admission, and 17 by the admission of ventilation company partners, 18 such as Honeywell, these solutions do not and cannot 19 address the health risks associated with the 20 secondhand smoke. 21 As the fine print reads in their own 22 promotional materials, ventilation can only address 23 the odor and irritation due to secondhand smoke. 24 They cannot claim to eliminate health 25 risks or disease and death due to secondhand smoke. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 265 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The American Society of Heating, 3 Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Engineers, 4 ASHRACE, which is the standard setting body for the 5 ventilation industry, acknowledges that secondhand 6 smoke is a major health risk, and its revised 7 standard 6299 creates the presumption of a 8 smoke-free environment for most indoor places, 9 including restaurants, as the recommended standard 10 for the industry. 11 The bottom line is that there is no 12 safe level of exposure of secondhand smoke, and the 13 review of ventilation technology can only mislead 14 policy-makers and the public into thinking there is 15 a magic bullet that can eliminate the risks due to 16 secondhand smoke. 17 Pursuing such a task force only would 18 provide a forum for the tobacco industry ventilation 19 consultants to further mislead the public and 20 distort the facts relating to the issue. 21 Such a forum would create exactly the 22 type of red herring diversion upon which the 23 industry loves to capitalize. 24 There have been other cities that 25 have also embarked on similar task forces, and with Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 266 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 very good intentions and thinking that they would 3 end up with a report that recommended 100 percent 4 smoke-free air, Philadelphia is a good example. Last 5 year Philadelphia created a similar task force, and 6 what happened at the end was that the Health 7 Commissioner, who was in charge of the task force, 8 came out with a report supporting the smoke-free 9 air, but all the meetings along it created a media 10 circus that led to a platform whereby the tobacco 11 companies could further confuse the public about 12 this issue. 13 So, I ask you to support the enhanced 14 smoke-free restrictions without the task force. You 15 have the opportunity to make New York a safer and 16 healthier place to live and work, as well as to be a 17 showcase in the east, but we at ANR believe the task 18 force pursuit would be foolish and it should be 19 rejected outright. Such a provision would make this 20 a bad bill. 21 I ask you to help keep New York 22 moving in the right direction and support as strong 23 100 percent smoke-free ordinance. 24 Thank you very much for your time 25 today. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 267 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 3 MS. GOLDSTEIN: Hi. My name is Serena 4 Goldstein, and I am in the 8th grade at Wagner 5 Middle School in Manhattan. 6 I am here to testify against smoking 7 in restaurants and bars. There are kids everywhere 8 that smoke and we need to let them know that it is 9 illegal and it is deadly. 10 We also need to be concerned about 11 people who work in these establishments. 12 Should people work in places that 13 allow smoking, knowing that being around secondhand 14 smoke is slowly killing them? 15 People who have been working there 16 for a long time may not mind it but are placing 17 their life at risk. 18 They can develop terrible illnesses 19 and have no control over their working conditions. 20 The people who want to smoke are 21 inhaling 4,000 poisonous chemicals and carcinogens 22 and shouldn't subject other people to it. 23 While they smoke the little white 24 tube and puff out the smokey air, someone else is 25 forced to breathe it and the smell lingers. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 268 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Every place wants business, but if 3 they permit smoking, not only are they harming their 4 workers, but they are harming their customers who 5 don't smoke. Even the young children are in danger. 6 As a result of smoking in restaurants 7 and bars, kids get the impression that it is okay to 8 smoke and they don't have to worry. 9 I think it is bad enough that 4.5 10 million kids, aged 12 to 17, are smokers, and 3,000 11 new kids enter their ranks each day. So, why 12 encourage a deadly habit when we should be trying to 13 prevent this? 14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 15 much. I appreciate that. 16 MS. CHARLESWORTH: Annemarie 17 Charlesworth. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER CLARKE: Let me tell 19 that young lady, when I grow up I want to be just 20 like her, articulate and good looking. 21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Well, remember, 22 she was here last year. The only thing is she is not 23 wearing her gold apple I gave her last year. 24 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Annemarie 25 Charlesworth. Diana Dearlove. Grace Rogers. Richard Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 269 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Toes. 3 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Why don't you 4 just call the other ones, too. 5 COUNSEL TO COMMITTEE: Linda Stewart. 6 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: She left, okay. 7 I also understand these are the last 8 that we have. I also understand there were --let's 9 see if I see the lady. She is not. She left, okay. 10 There are two young people who 11 apparently came from Staten Island and what we are 12 going to do is allow them to give us petitions, that 13 they have come. 14 Folks, you have to understand, in 15 fairness to some of us on this end, too, I mean, we 16 started at 10:15, 20, somewhere along the line it 17 has to come to an end, because this is not the last 18 hearing, there are going to be other hearings. My 19 dilemma is, whenever we have these hearings, the 20 same people come back and testify again, so I know I 21 have to be the bad guy, but I am sorry, I am just 22 human, and if you notice, I had to go somewhere. 23 So, the fact is, if I offended 24 anybody, sorry about that. Some people sat here from 25 this morning until now, it is unfair to them that Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 270 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 somebody comes midafternoon, and I have to make a 3 decision and so be it. 4 Having said that, the two young 5 people, why don't you just come up front so that 6 when the time comes you can present those petitions 7 to us young people. Something happened here. Thank 8 you for having the patience. 9 Go ahead. 10 MR. TOES: Good afternoon. I am a 11 bartender, and probably a person most affected by 12 this bill. I am a valued employee who does an 13 excellent job at a Manhattan hotel, but because I 14 must work in a smoke-filled hotel, my health is 15 being put at risk. 16 Other service industry employees do 17 not have to endure this health hazard. Flight 18 attendants, nurses, cafeteria workers, and almost 19 all customer service employees do not have to 20 breathe environmental tobacco smoke on a daily 21 basis. I realize that my customers do not knowingly 22 wish me any health problems. But their indifference 23 of this matter of secondhand smoke does not change 24 the fact that they may be causing me grave health 25 issues. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 271 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 I deserve the same right to a 3 smoke-free workplace as other workers. I see this as 4 a true quality of life issue whose quality of life 5 happens to be mine. 6 I urge you to stand up for the health 7 of all workers. Every worker deserves a safe, 8 healthy, smoke-free environment. 9 Thank you. 10 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you, sir. 11 MS. CHARLESWORTH: Hello. My name is 12 Annemarie Charlesworth. I am a researcher at the 13 University of California, San Francisco. I co-wrote 14 and published with Professor Stan Glantz the 1999 15 JAMA article, "Tourism and Hotel Revenues Before and 16 After Passage of the Smoke-Free Restaurant 17 Ordinances", which concluded that smoke-free 18 ordinances do not appear to adversely affect and may 19 increase tourist business. 20 This study was conducted in response 21 to tobacco industry claims that tourist business 22 would decrease in cities and states throughout the 23 United States, including New York City, if 24 smoke-free ordinances were enacted. 25 These claims are typical of the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 272 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 tobacco industry whenever a smoke-free ordinance is 3 proposed, and has been previously dispelled in 4 earlier work by many scientists regarding smoke-free 5 ordinances and restaurant revenue. 6 In 1995, when the Smoke Free Air Act 7 was initially proposed here in New York City, the 8 tobacco industry and the front group claimed that 9 the smoke-free ordinance would cause New York"to 10 lose millions of dollars in meetings and conventions 11 that bring visitors from all over the world, take 12 their business and vacations elsewhere." 13 Our study examined New York City tax 14 data from 1989 through 1998 and concluded that 15 tobacco industry claims that New York City would 16 lose millions of dollars in tourist revenues were 17 false. To the contrary, the Smoke Free Air Act was 18 associated with a significant increase in tourist 19 business. 20 The proposed legislation in front of 21 the City Council today would take the Smoke Free Air 22 Act one step further in protecting the health of New 23 York City's visitors and workers by ending indoor 24 smoking completely in our restaurants. 25 The City Council can pass this part Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 273 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 of the legislation confidently, knowing there will 3 be no negative and possibly positive economic 4 consequences and the health of the public will be 5 protected. 6 However, Section 17-513.2 of the same 7 legislation poses a very real threat to the 8 integrity of the Smoke Free Air Act and the public 9 health. 10 This amendment calls for the 11 establishment of a secondhand smoke air quality task 12 force, effective immediately, charged with the 13 issuing of a report to the Council by the end of the 14 year on the adverse impact of secondhand smoke since 15 the enactment of the Smoke Free Air Act, and new 16 ventilation technologies designed to ventilate and 17 clean smoke-filled rooms. 18 In light of its finding, the task 19 force is to then make recommendations to the Council 20 for appropriate legislative action. 21 This section of the proposed 22 legislation is problematic for several reasons. 23 Number one, it has already been 24 established that the Smoke Free Air Act has had no 25 negative economic impact on the City of New York. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 274 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 If this legislation is approved, 3 including Section 17-513.2, and an additional study 4 is undertaken, six months is not enough time to 5 collect reliable data. 6 Having done a report like this 7 myself, you need at least one year worth of data to 8 be confident that the findings reflect real changes 9 rather than random fluctuations. Given the delays in 10 reporting and processing the data, you need to allow 11 at least two years to collect and process the data, 12 requiring the report before then will almost 13 certainly ensure inaccurate results. 14 Number two, given that there are no 15 adverse economic consequences of smoke free laws, 16 there is no need to even consider imposing expensive 17 ventilation solutions on the hospitality industry, 18 the only beneficiary of such systems are the people 19 who sell them, and more importantly, the tobacco 20 industry, which can then sell more cigarettes. 21 And, finally, the creation of a task 22 force to effectively dismantle a public health law 23 is yet another well-known tobacco industry strategy. 24 As currently written, the 25 constituency and mandate of the task force is Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 275 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 heavily biased, and will most likely return a report 3 favorable only to the tobacco industry. Whether 4 Philip Morris initiates the accommodation program, 5 or their newly crafted options initiative, which 6 advocates for bogus ventilation systems to protect 7 their profits, the health of the public is still in 8 jeopardy. 9 Therefore, I support all sections of 10 the proposed legislation, except for section 11 17-513.2, and strongly urge this part of the bill to 12 be dropped. 13 If the Council keeps the task force 14 provisions as a public health expert, I would 15 vigorously oppose the bill. 16 Thank you very much. 17 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 18 I just want to make sure I 19 understand. So, currently you are opposed to the 20 bill? 21 MS. CHARLESWORTH: Currently I support 22 it. 23 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Wait. Wait. Wait. 24 I am confused now. 25 I heard what you just said, now let Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 276 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 me try and understand what you said. 3 You said that if that provision of 4 the bill stays on then you will oppose the bill. So, 5 since the provision is in the bill right now, then 6 currently you are opposed to the bill? 7 MS. CHARLESWORTH: If the provision 8 stays -- 9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: But it is in the 10 bill now. 11 So, you are saying unless you take it 12 out, you will not support the bill, that is what you 13 are saying? 14 MS. CHARLESWORTH: Yes. 15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay. So you are 16 not for the bill right now? 17 MS. CHARLESWORTH: I am for the spirit 18 of the bill. 19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay. 20 MS. CHARLESWORTH: I don't think I am 21 concerned -- 22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: See, here is my 23 dilemma, because, again, I am trying to be as fair 24 and open, and that's what I tell those in the 25 restaurants, you can't have it both ways. You know, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 277 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 they come and tell us also about, well, if you do 3 this and the point is, even if we do, then they are 4 still opposed to it. 5 So, as a member, forget about the 6 Chairman, I have taken a position because I get fed 7 up, too, you know. Well, if I go out of my way to 8 understand what you are saying, and I crinkle around 9 and change it and you still are opposed to it, and 10 since I am a co-sponsor, and this is a bill that I 11 put my name on; why would I change it? My name is on 12 there. So, I just want to make sure that we 13 understand when we send messages and singles, okay? 14 You are telling the industry, oh, you know, you are 15 not for the bill, because if you listen to some of 16 these persons, I was going to say something else, 17 but these persons, they always come up with these 18 cockamamie excuses. And as far as I am concerned, 19 hey, listen, my name is on this bill, I will vote it 20 out right now as it is. So, I just want to make sure 21 that we have a constant position, and I just want to 22 -- I am not against you, I just want to make sure I 23 understand what you said, really you are testifying 24 in opposition of the bill because the bill currently 25 written includes the task force and the other thing Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 278 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 that you mentioned. And what your testimony was, so 3 I understand it correctly is, that as a 4 professional, that if those provisions are still in 5 the bill, you oppose the bill. 6 MS. CHARLESWORTH: Yes. 7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: So wherever we 8 are in the future, next hearing, or wherever it 9 goes, if those provisions are still there, then I 10 will try to remember, because I am getting old up 11 there, but that if you come again, I hope your 12 testimony clearly then follows your statement, and I 13 just want to make sure. 14 And I am sorry, but I have heard the 15 industry also, the restaurant owners, all day tell 16 me in this Committee what we should do in order to 17 have a fair bill, so I listened. You know the 18 gentlemen from Staten Island, I think it was about 19 that take out, I mean, you know, I listen. 20 But then if we do do that, and that 21 man comes back and says he's opposed to the bill, 22 guess what I am going to do? I am going to put it 23 back into the bill again, because then why did I 24 change it? 25 Okay, it's not you. I just wanted to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 279 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 be sure, because I want to be consistent and 3 everybody clear on my position. 4 MS. CHARLESWORTH: For the record I 5 can say that as written I oppose the bill, as 6 written. 7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Good. 8 MS. CHARLESWORTH: And I am saying 9 that very clearly. 10 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: I understand 11 that. And I respect that. In the beginning I got the 12 impression you were for the bill. 13 MS. CHARLESWORTH: No. And I think 14 that that is consistent to other testimony you have 15 heard earlier, they did not say it that clearly. 16 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: No, no. Listen to 17 what I am saying. You know, it is like when you sit 18 here people give you things and you look at it says 19 in support, and now I am sitting here and I listen 20 to you and what they showed me is not consistent. It 21 is not you. I just want my staff also to know that 22 someone can't say they are for a bill, and then all 23 of a sudden I am hearing, well, unless you take this 24 out, I will have no choice as an expert 25 professional, but oppose it. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 280 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Well, then, my job as the Chairman of 3 this Committee is, excuse me, then that means 4 whoever put in support should not put in support 5 because you are opposed to the bill because 6 currently the bill that the Speaker is carrying and 7 Councilman Robles, and I don't know how many other 8 number of members, have in the bill those 9 provisions. And, so, I want to make sure your 10 testimony is correct, and, again, I want to be 11 clear. Currently you are opposed to the bill, your 12 professional believe is that there are provisions of 13 the bill that you as a professional person cannot 14 live with, and that you will have no choice but to 15 oppose it. 16 So, I ask my Counsel to find your 17 name, and if there was support put in opposition. 18 Now, if we have future hearings, as 19 we negotiate and have other hearings, if it is 20 clearly corrected the way you would like it to see, 21 then I have no problem and then it is in support. 22 Please understand I am sorry I used you, but I sat 23 here all day listening to them and they all told me 24 what should not be and how it should be, and I know 25 because I have been around, and I have been here 17 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 281 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 years, that was six years in the assembly, it really 3 baffles me when people tell me as a legislator what 4 should not be in the bill, and then we go out of our 5 way to try to accommodate, and they are still 6 against the bill. 7 Well, let me be clear, this chair, I 8 am only one vote of the nine, any tampering with the 9 bill that right now has my name, to accommodate 10 people, then I expect them to support the bill. You 11 can't have it both ways. 12 Peter, you are so great, how great 13 thou art, and then all of a sudden, when the time 14 comes it wasn't strong enough. Well, you are either 15 for it or against it. If it is not strong enough, 16 say it, and I respect that position more than to 17 mislead the Speaker as we have the support, and I am 18 the headcounter and hoping that I have enough votes 19 because in this legislative body, the bottom line, 20 folks, with all that you said, it's votes. And, so, 21 I am moving to find five of the nine votes of the 22 Committee to move this bill out, and when it comes 23 to the floor, my job is to find 26 votes out of 51 24 votes, and guess what? It will pass. The Mayor wants 25 to veto it? Let him veto it, what do I care. But Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 282 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 then my job is to find 34 votes to override. Do you 3 understand? I know my role clearly. I am not an 4 expert, I am just the Chairman of the Committee. 5 So, folks, you know, I want to be 6 clear, because sometimes we are our own worst 7 enemies when we say one thing and it gives the wrong 8 impression. 9 But I want you to understand, that I 10 appreciate now and I clearly understand, your 11 position, which I respect, currently you are opposed 12 to the bill because it has two items in there that 13 professionally -- 14 MS. CHARLESWORTH: Yes. 15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: -- You believe 16 should not be in there. Right, no problem. 17 Some people say we are not for the 18 bill because in there you have those -- or you don't 19 have those, or you are catering -- I mean, I heard 20 and I saw him sitting here, I heard Joe Cherner's 21 name all day. I mean, again, he defends himself and 22 I am not here to defend him, but in fairness, I mean 23 he has, and I am not taking his side, he has been 24 one person since I have been on this Committee, who 25 has been consistent. Whether I like it or I don't Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 283 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 like it, this guy has been consistent. Where I come 3 from we say he is a thorn, but you know what? I 4 respect him. Because anyone who refuses to be turned 5 around you have to respect. 6 I don't agree with you all the time, 7 Joe, but basically when the time came down like the 8 votes, even though I may disagree, I have always 9 voted for those bills. 10 But to have someone say, unless you 11 do this, the bill is not going anywhere. 12 I am sorry, there is another thing, 13 too. It's amazing, blows my mind, New York City 14 right now and this State is the only place where you 15 have this bill to enforce, whether right or wrong. I 16 don't see the State, I see legislators came here. 17 Where is the State of New York on a statewide bill? 18 So, please, folks, because you know 19 there are members who won't be around anymore, and 20 now the mentality around City Hall is, we don't need 21 you. 22 Well, if you don't need me then why 23 should I vote for you. I mean, there is not a new 24 Council yet, you know. And I don't know whether the 25 new Council in two years is going to concentrate on Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 284 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 these health issues like we have been concentrating. 3 It hasn't happened over night, huh, Joe? It has 4 happened through the years. But we have been 5 consistent, we have moved forward. 6 So, I just wanted to be clear, 7 because I am on your side. But I have to negotiate, 8 and for me it is more important, every time it was 9 said, boy, your intention was to chip away -- yes, 10 it's to chip away. What is our ultimate goal? To 11 make a smoke-free environment. Yes, that's our 12 position, isn't it? I mean, to try to dance around 13 here, I said here, and I am sorry, I am tired, I 14 haven't eaten. Let's move on. 15 Young lady I am sorry. 16 MS. DEARLOVE: Well, I think I better 17 make my position clear. 18 I would have to say that I would 19 advise opposition to this bill, and I will explain 20 why, okay? So, I will start. 21 My name is Joanna Dearlove, and I am 22 a researcher at the University of California, San 23 Francisco. I published a report with Dr. Stan Glantz 24 on State and Local Tobacco Policy in New York, and 25 another report on tobacco industry strategies Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 285 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 designed to stop health wars, including those in New 3 York, from enacting effective Clean Indoor Air Laws. 4 Intro. 865 creates a secondhand smoke 5 air quality task force to quote/unquote report to 6 the Council on new and emerging technologies 7 designed to ventilate and clean smoke-filled rooms, 8 and to filtrate and purge smoke and associated 9 carcinogens, end quote. 10 Suggesting ventilation as a solution 11 to the problem of secondhand smoke has been central 12 to the tobacco industry's worldwide strategy against 13 smoke-free environments for years. 14 In the course of my research I have 15 read thousands of previously secret tobacco industry 16 internal documents. These documents divulge the 17 evolution of the industry's strategy against Clean 18 Indoor Air laws. 19 The industry indiscriminately opposed 20 all such laws until 1993, when it switched from a 21 defensive strategy to an offensive strategy. They 22 first began by attempting to downplay the health 23 dangers of secondhand smoke and a decline of social 24 acceptability of smoking to the so-called 25 accommodation program. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 286 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The accommodation program promoted 3 three myths, as outlined in this 1996 Philip Morris 4 document I have here, titled "Worldwide Strategy and 5 Plan". 6 The first myth is the science does 7 not justify bans and unreasonable restrictions on 8 smoking. 9 The second is, the preferences of 10 smokers and non-smokers can be accommodated. 11 The third is that technological 12 options, i.e., ventilation, can address overall 13 indoor air quality issues, and we have already heard 14 testimony to the contrary. 15 As the evidence against secondhand 16 smoke accumulated, including evidence that 17 short-term exposure caused heart problems, and as 18 the tobacco industry's predictions of economic 19 disaster failed to materialize, the industry shifted 20 its focus from the first two myths and focused on 21 the third, the ventilation solution. 22 They now promote ventilation as a 23 solution to allowing smoking in public places and 24 workplaces. 25 This is the essence of Philip Morris' Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 287 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 so-called Options Program, which is on their web 3 site, and this is a brochure I have from them, if 4 anyone cares to look at it. 5 The claim that ventilation 6 effectively removes secondhand smoke from an 7 environment is false. Today the only advocates for 8 this approach have been consultants tied to the 9 industry or others who could profit from installing 10 these systems. 11 The irony is, the tobacco industry 12 promotes these expensive ventilation systems as a 13 waiver business to avoid the alleged costs of 14 creating smoke-free environments, but the objective 15 data indicates that there are no such costs. 16 Furthermore, the beneficiary of these 17 expensive ventilation solutions is not the 18 hospitality industry or the public, it is the 19 cigarette companies who are trying to maintain sales 20 and profits. 21 The industry has already attempted to 22 weaken smoke-free legislation in Duluth, Minnesota, 23 by adding exemptions for businesses that install 24 certain ventilation systems, another proactive 25 strategy, and was actually successful in passing Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 288 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 such exemptions in Mesa, Arizona, although Mesa 3 later revoked its provision when they realized this 4 was an industry strategy. 5 When an industry succeeds in 6 inserting ventilation exemptions, not only is the 7 issue taken off of the public agenda without an 8 effective solution, the issue can never be 9 revisited. Because by prompting business owners to 10 invest in these expensive ventilation systems, the 11 industry has increased the business owners' 12 incentive to oppose any future smoke-free air 13 proposals, and you have already heard testimony from 14 restaurant owners that they are spending about 15 $200,000 on these systems. 16 By passing this legislation with 17 Section 17-513.2 and establishing the secondhand 18 smoke air quality task force, the City Council would 19 be adding credibility to the industry's position. 20 Adopting this legislation would imply that the 21 industry's ventilation solution as a credible 22 possibility for New York City, and therefore, maybe 23 an effective means of dealing with secondhand smoke. 24 The crux of the industry's 25 accommodation campaign is the generation of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 289 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 controversy around already established facts. By 3 passing this legislation with Section 17-513.2, you 4 will be perpetuating the industry-generated 5 controversy over the effectiveness of ventilation. 6 And because this is New York City, it would set a 7 world-wide precedent that would be a coup for the 8 tobacco industry. 9 One of the hallmarks of the 10 industry's Accommodation strategy is its reasonable 11 tone and appeal for diplomacy. In fact, an industry 12 document praised this reasonableness as a great 13 strength because it would make tobacco control 14 advocates appear unreasonable if they opposed it. 15 Furthermore, the industry often uses 16 third parties to promote their agenda. The 1996 17 document I quoted earlier states, "Work with third 18 parties with business interests in heating, 19 ventilation and air conditioning, and encourage them 20 to communicate directly concerning the availability 21 and benefits of their technologies. 22 In light of all of this, it is very 23 likely that the Council and the supporters of this 24 bill do not appreciate how all this fits into the 25 tobacco industry scheme to oppose clean indoor air Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 290 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 policies. 3 As a researcher who has examined 4 tobacco industry strategies over the world and pored 5 over thousands of internal industry documents, it is 6 easy for me to recognize the establishment of the 7 Second-Hand Smoke Air Quality task Force as an 8 industry attempt to coopt the legislative process 9 and undermine the substantial progress that you have 10 already made in New York. 11 Without this task force ventilation 12 provision, the proposed ordinance modestly improves 13 the existing clean indoor air law and would greatly 14 benefit the public health. 15 But if this provision is not deleted 16 from the bill, I would strongly advise the public 17 health advocates to oppose the entire bill. 18 Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you. 20 Let me just -- because you know in 21 the real world, and I guess my dilemma is the 22 following. I am a politician by election but I have 23 never tried to operate as one. I have always looked 24 at myself as a public servant. 25 I am sorry. I am trying to find this Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 291 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 poster that I saw before already against the 3 Speaker, but there are people, and that is why I 4 went on my way to single out Joe, because he is 5 constantly on the front line being attacked for what 6 he is doing. But at least one thing I can say about 7 Joe is at least he knows that in the real world you 8 don't get everything perfect the way you want it, 9 and little by little we have been moving towards 10 that goal for eventually, because what blows my mind 11 is, with all due respect, I don't see the State of 12 New York taking the lead, although people come here 13 to testify. They can do the same thing, even though 14 little by little. I don't see Washington, you know, 15 you all keep pushing these politicians. And, so, you 16 want to be clear, in fairness to some of us, because 17 I must tell you, I have to be honest with you, my 18 name is on this bill, I have to say that people 19 better work on me because I right now am tempted to 20 take my name off this bill. Because I really resent 21 all of the work that I have put into this Committee 22 for the last 17 years I have been here, and the 23 reason I became the Chairman of this Committee was 24 because I felt that we were not addressing health 25 issues. That's number one. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 292 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Number two, since there are people in 3 here and I will see if I still see his face, which I 4 don't, but I will remind him, folks, we are talking 5 about budget issues. Right now there is a budget 6 with a $20 million cut by this Administration on 7 health issues, cancer, asthma, you all better make 8 sure you are around when it comes budget time too. 9 It is hypocrisy to talk about health issues and when 10 the time comes to do something, I am there by 11 myself. 12 Because, you know, I am proud of four 13 years of hard work, and today this Committee is 14 respected and this Committee got $30 million for 15 health services out of tobacco settlement money, 16 which originally there was not sent for it, it was 17 all going to schools, to fix schools, and not health 18 needs. 19 So, those individuals who came in 20 here and I sat here way back, and I didn't forget 21 about the bill that was passed then, way back I 22 always remembered how they used to come with those 23 devices and that stood with me. And thank God I 24 don't smoke, I am healthy, but, you know, you do 25 have a heart. And so, I want to be clear, folks, our Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 293 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 goal, this goal, this Chairman, is to work towards a 3 complete free air environment, but the closer I 4 work, as long as I am the Chairman, to that goal, I 5 intend to move forward. 6 I am not going to derail the train 7 simply because it is not a perfect bill. But I must 8 tell you, both on the industry side and on the 9 advocate side, can't have it both ways. 10 And, so, I respect you, because now 11 you are on record, you are opposed to the bill and I 12 respect you. But people cannot have the Speaker sit 13 here and say how great thou art, and this man is 14 being creamed, and being challenged and said you 15 keep going this route and we will see when it comes 16 time you want to be Mayor, and that is the politics 17 that I resent when I hear what I am hearing. Because 18 New York City and this Council has led the fight 19 jointly to get where we are today. 20 Is it perfect? No. Is it better? Yes. 21 Can it get better? Yes. That's what these hearings 22 are about, little by little. 23 Thank you for coming. 24 Now, I see these two young people, so 25 why don't you come up to the table. And, sir, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 294 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 although I said the young people, but I saw you 3 stand up and I am not as bad as you think I am. 4 Why don't you just come up here since 5 you are the last one and we will let you also. And 6 so we will bring what I call the past, the present, 7 the future. 8 No, not you, sir. This gentleman 9 right here. I am telling you, you can come now. I am 10 calling you. I am letting you sit with the young 11 people. 12 MS. SIEGEL: Good afternoon. My name 13 is Debra Siegel. I am a student at Tottenville High 14 School on Staten Island, and I have been a volunteer 15 with the American Cancer Society for the past two 16 years. 17 During the past year, the American 18 Cancer Society has facilitated a team focused 19 anti-tobacco advocacy program in the Staten Island 20 Regional Office, recruiting three teams to develop 21 their own projects to implement in their community. 22 Sponsored by Mystic Beverages, the 23 American Cancer Society's Kick Butt Teen Challenge 24 was a program designed to recruit, educate and 25 motivate young people to become community activists, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 295 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 focusing on the issue of tobacco control and teenage 3 smoking. 4 I am speaking on behalf of the 12 5 teams that participated in the American Cancer 6 Society's Kick Butt Teen Challenge on Staten Island. 7 The advocacy component of each 8 project was the discussion of the expansion of the 9 1995 Smoke Free Air Act. Each group explained to 10 their target audience components of the 1995 act and 11 how an expansion of this would prohibit smoking in 12 all areas of restaurants. 13 In total, 565 signatures were 14 collected on three teams petitions. Staten Islanders 15 are making a clear statement. Diners no longer want 16 to breathe smoke in small restaurants or suffer from 17 smoke drifting from the bar area throughout the 18 restaurant. 19 I was part of the dine out against 20 smoking project. We had a team that was comprised of 21 two Notre Dame Academy students, Cara S. Liander and 22 Christina Whalen, and myself, a Tottenville High 23 School student. Our team's campaign applauded the 24 participating restaurants' smoke-free policy and 25 allowed the team to give the restaurant patrons an Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 296 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 opportunity to sign a petition supporting the 3 expansion of the 1995 Smoke-Free Air Act. In 4 addition, our team distributed information regarding 5 the dangers of smoking to the patrons of two Staten 6 Island establishments. 131 signatures were collected 7 on our petition. 8 The "Personal Stories Brochure" Team 9 was comprised of four St. Joseph By-The-Sea High 10 School students and one College of Staten Island 11 student. 12 The team compiled a new brochure that 13 recounts the personal experience of smokers and 14 people affected by smoking. In a very poignant way, 15 the brochure gets across the message with the 16 detrimental affect of smoking on one's body and 17 one's family. Included in the brochure was a pledge 18 for the reader to sign, a pledge not to start 19 smoking. 20 Also included was a statement that 21 the signer supports the expansion of the 1995 Smoke 22 Free Air Act to include all restaurants resulting in 23 the collection of 330 signatures. 24 The "Day Camp Project" Team was 25 comprised of four Susan Wagner High School students. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 297 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Their team visited two day camps on Staten Island to 3 conduct an anti-tobacco awareness and advocacy 4 campaign. 5 During the presentation the team 6 informed the day campers about the toxic and 7 carcinogenic components of cigarettes using the 8 visual of showing other products that contain those 9 items, for instance, nail polish remover contains 10 acetone, as do cigarettes. 11 The team also discussed peer pressure 12 in the context of tobacco use. This team collected 13 104 signatures on a petition in support of the 14 expansion of the 1995 Smoke Free Air Act. 15 I frequent many restaurants on Staten 16 Island with my family and friends and do not feel 17 that I should have to be subject to the harmful 18 secondhand smoke that is often the result of the 19 other patrons' smoking habits. 20 I have made the choice not to smoke, 21 and, therefore, see no reason that I should be 22 harmed by someone else's cigarette or cigar smoke. 23 I believe that I am entitled to 24 inhale clean air, it is my right, not my privilege. 25 I am submitting the 565 signatures Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 298 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 collected in our projects as proof that many other 3 Staten Islanders also believe it is their right to 4 breathe clean air. 5 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Are you doing 6 that, or is he doing that? Are you doing the 7 petitions? 8 Sergeant-At-Arms, would you get those 9 petitions, please. 10 MR. YOUSSEF: Good afternoon. My name 11 is Mahmoud Youssef. I am a senior at Staten Island 12 Technical High School on Staten Island. I would like 13 to read two statements. The first is from a 14 restaurant owner in Staten Island, of Bario's 15 Restaurant. 16 To whom it may concern, my name is 17 Mario Rapaglia. I am the co-owner of Bario's 18 Restaurant in New Springville, Staten Island. I am 19 writing you today to express my support for the new 20 anti-smoking legislation that was most recently 21 introduced. 22 I was extremely happy back in 1995 23 when the Smoke Free Act first came out. I thought it 24 was a fantastic law that was long overdue. At the 25 time, I felt that the good health of our staff and I Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 299 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 was far more important than making a couple more 3 dollars. I am pleased to report that I was not 4 wrong. 5 The anti-smoking legislation does not 6 affect our sales at all. In fact, we did even 7 better. I am glad that the new legislation has been 8 introduced. I can never quite understand why a 9 restaurant with fewer than 35 seats was permitted to 10 have smoking. Wouldn't there be less fresh healthy 11 air in a smaller establishment? 12 I have always felt that part of the 13 law was short-sighted. I am also pleased that all 14 areas of restaurants are included in the new law. I 15 do not care how far the seating from the bar was, I 16 always managed to breathe in secondhand smoke. 17 As a proud father of four healthy 18 children and a forever grieving son of a lung cancer 19 victim, I am very pleased -- 20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: That's not you, 21 right? That's not you? 22 MR. YOUSSEF: No. I am 17 years old, 23 thank you. 24 I am very pleased that the tobacco 25 industry is finally taking their lumps. I do not Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 300 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 know how they sleep at night. If this law passes it 3 will be nice to be able to take my family out to eat 4 in New York City and be able to enjoy a meal without 5 having our good health assaulted by secondhand 6 smoke. 7 Thank you for your time and 8 consideration. 9 Sincerely, Mario Rapaglia. 10 And the second statement is -- 11 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: You? 12 MR. YOUSSEF: Yes, thank you. My 13 statement. 14 As a certified lifeguard, I am 15 responsible to be a firsthand rescuer in any 16 potentially dangerous situation for which I can lend 17 my hand. 18 So often when I go out to eat, do I 19 find hazardous situations involving the mixing of 20 smoking and non-smoking areas. 21 These situations have opened up an 22 undeniable risk to people with respiratory problems. 23 Several times I have had to take 24 action with assisting people with heart attacks, 25 asthma attacks and other breathing emergencies. Why? Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 301 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Because people insist on smoking in any place they 3 possibly can, including their local restaurant. 4 Why do people who simply want to go 5 out and peacefully enjoy their meal, have to risk 6 their health while doing so? 7 Is it right to deny any 8 restaurant-goer the right to enjoy a clean meal 9 without the hazards of nicotine infested air and 10 possibly food. 11 Though I have been lucky to have a 12 smoke-free family, I have seen others where smoking 13 is running in the family. While going out to eat 14 with a friend's family, I was faced with a situation 15 where my friend's mother had an asthma attack, most 16 probably due to the closeness of the smoking and 17 non-smoking areas of the restaurant. That night she 18 was put into the hospital where she stayed for two 19 days. 20 She went to that restaurant that 21 night to enjoy a good meal, not to risk her life. 22 The unexpected and dreadful surprise 23 that awaited her was certainly a sign for her to 24 take action. 25 She is currently a major advocator of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 302 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 non-smoking and probably here right now. 3 There are so many steps in fighting 4 this long and hard battle against tobacco. 5 Eliminating smoking from the restaurants is one of 6 the most important steps. We can't be bothered by 7 smoking everywhere we go. 8 Let us eat in peace. Let us eat 9 smoke-free. 10 Thank you very much. 11 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 12 much. 13 Before I call upon you, sir, and I 14 will, let me just say this: I used to be the 15 Chairman of the Youth Services Committee and I had a 16 tradition, and I am always moved when I see young 17 people take the leadership to not only come down, I 18 understand you came from Staten Island, so that you 19 could present us with the petitions, but also your 20 statements. I must tell you that Staten Island 21 should be very proud of both of you. If anyone asks 22 about the future of New York City, given what I have 23 heard today, we are in good shape. 24 And, so, when you see me on 25 television or on Crosswalks, or when you see me Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 303 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 anywhere else, or even right now, and I become 3 emotional, it is because I am a very proud son of a 4 pioneer who brought me here with hopes and dreams 5 and I thank God that I reached those levels. 6 You know, I remember when New York 7 City was referred to a rotten apple because 8 everything was going wrong, and we are now the 9 symbol to the world, even in crime and other things, 10 including health. And, so, we are very proud, at 11 least the Speaker and this Council is proud, and we 12 changed the way the apple looked like with the red 13 apple with the worm, and now we have gold apples. 14 So, if you both will come up here, I want you to 15 always remember that it is what we are doing today 16 or in the future, it is because we want young people 17 like you to have a better future that we didn't 18 have, okay? 19 Thank you. 20 Sir, you are young at heart. 21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can you hear me 22 now? 23 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: No. Press the 24 button. 25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You can hear me Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 304 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 now? 3 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: I can hear you 4 now, absolutely. 5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, I came 6 from Babylon in Long Island. 7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Oh, you are from 8 Long Island, okay. 9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I work the 10 night shift from 9:00 p.m. to 8:00, and this guy did 11 not come up for this next shift so I couldn't be 12 here for 10:00. And still I worked til finishing his 13 work, and then I am here to testify. 14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Good. Thank you. 15 Welcome. 16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I think it is 17 more heart and what I am doing at the moment. I very 18 much support the Association which are going for a 19 smoke-free America all the way, and this is a good 20 beginning for New York City. 21 I have not looked at the bill in 22 complete so I am not criticizing any portion of it, 23 but it is a good beginning. 24 I am for the bill. I am sure that 25 more amendments can come and modify the bill in Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 305 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 later times, so it is not necessary to stop it. 3 There is one more concern about 4 people who work in public places, factories and 5 companies, as well as the audience, they cannot go 6 because they have to make their living. This is for 7 a smoke-free America and there are other aspects 8 also. This is a multi-racial, multi-ethnic society 9 today, more so in New York City and New York State 10 and all over America, but here is much more. 11 Forcing people around you who work 12 throughout the time, having smoking going on while 13 you are working or having some sexual remarks made 14 all the time is not fair. It should be clean for 15 everybody to be in an environment where they can 16 function. It is also mental torture, forget about 17 physical torture and mental torture. With this 18 beginning of the Smoke Free Act, I appreciate that 19 somewhere, sometimes, people will look into this 20 issue, because if we are not Christians, they will 21 not like Christian ways, who are not Jewish, they 22 don't like something else, who are people like us 23 who come from the Far East, we don't like something, 24 and we are supposed to be in the audience listening 25 to all of this, and it is just not fair. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 306 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 This country is based upon freedom of 3 the individual and religion are separate. 4 I appreciate that you look into this 5 matter, as well as the one I said for the bill, 6 modify it into something else, eliminate all bad 7 parts of the bill, we would appreciate it. 8 Thank you very much. 9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let me also say, 10 because I don't want you to think -- where I come 11 from, in the typical scriptures that I read, it says 12 the last shall be first. Well, we left you for the 13 last because you are the best. 14 However, let me just say that when I 15 said the young people you stood up, since you still 16 feel young in spirit, but I also want you to know, 17 first now that I know that you came from Long Island 18 and that you also work a night shift, I mean this 19 issue is so important that you took the time to 20 come. 21 Let me also say that I want you to 22 also leave here knowing that you are young in heart, 23 and that we have heard and appreciate you taking the 24 time out to come here. 25 So, I don't want you to be left out. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 307 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Come up here. I will give you one, 3 too. How is that? 4 Thank you. 5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good luck. 6 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you so 7 much, I appreciate it. 8 Let me just say that I want to thank 9 those who are still here. I don't see any more. 10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can you take 11 one more? 12 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: No, no, no, wait. 13 I want to make sure that I don't take one more and 14 then somebody pops up. 15 Are you the only two left? No, now 16 there is three; do you see what I am saying? 17 All right, this is the last three. 18 Come on, let's go. 19 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you. I 20 work part-time as a social worker with young people 21 to teach self-esteem. I applaud the law because I 22 feel it will help them have some self-esteem and 23 stand up and say no, we can live in the environment 24 without cigarettes and without smoking. 25 But I also come as another person. I Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 308 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 am a platelet donor. We all know what platelets are. 3 If anyone doesn't put up your hand, I will be glad 4 to explain afterwards. I can't stay long because I 5 am on today as a donor in a couple of hours at Sloan 6 Kettering for people who have cancer, a lot of it is 7 due to smoke. 8 I applaud the bill. I am more than 9 willing to donate, but if we can prevent the need 10 for -- the time has long since come that we prevent 11 a need for cancer, the occurrence of cancer and the 12 need for platelets because of some tobacco people's 13 wanting to make money. 14 Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 16 much. 17 Sir. Or Ma'am. 18 DR. GEMSON: I will be very brief. I 19 am Dr. Don Gemson. I am the immediate past chair of 20 the Coalition for a Smoke-Free City. I am a position 21 and I am on faculty at Columbia School Public Health 22 where I teach preventive medicine and tobacco 23 control. 24 There may be some controversial 25 aspects to this bill, but there are also several Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 309 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 unassailable facts and I will be very brief just 3 highlighting what I think are the key facts first. 4 The CDC estimate that 50,000 innocent 5 people die of secondhand smoke every year, there is 6 more people who die from secondhand smoke than who 7 die from cirrhosis, homicide, suicide or HIV. 8 Second, lung cancer is the number one 9 cancer cause of death, not only in the United States 10 but in the world. It is number one in men, it is 11 number one in women. This year more Americans will 12 die from lung cancer than from breast cancer, colon 13 cancer and prostate cancer combined. 14 Third, 90 percent of lung cancer is 15 directly attributed to smoking, whether inhaled by a 16 smoker or by an innocent bystander who inhale 17 secondhand smoke. 18 Fourth, multiple studies in multiple 19 locations have demonstrated no adverse impact on 20 restaurant businesses as a result of going smoke 21 free. 22 And finally, fifth, and last, last 23 week my family went into Pizzeria Uno for dinner. 24 While waiting ten minutes for a table, in a waiting 25 area next to a bar with several smoking customers, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 310 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 my two children, aged seven and two, stood there and 3 inhaled the leading cause of cancer in the world for 4 ten minutes. 5 As you consider a vote on this bill, 6 I urge you to think about the children throughout 7 the City who innocently walk into their neighborhood 8 restaurant and inhale a carcinogen that causes 9 asthma, bronchitis and emphysema and over 50,000 10 deaths each year. An opportunity to save lives is a 11 rare thing. Today with the City and the country 12 watching us, that opportunity is in your hands. I 13 urge you to do the right thing and support Intro. 14 865. 15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Thank you very 16 much. 17 MS. JOLICOEUR: My name is Alison 18 Jolicoeur, and I am 23 and I have been working in 19 the restaurant business for over four years. 20 I am not only a bartender, I am a 21 singer, and everyone in the restaurant business has 22 a bigger dream. 23 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: You sing, too? 24 MR. JOLICOEUR: Yes. Not here, I heard 25 about that. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 311 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 It is the only job that I can have 3 where I make good money and that has flexible hours. 4 It allows me to have time to be an artist. But I 5 work at the longest bar in Manhattan and it gets 6 full of smoke. 7 On Friday and Saturday nights 8 bartenders are behind the bar for ten hours or more 9 breathing a cloud of smoke. There is no filtration, 10 no circulation at all, and by the end of my shift my 11 eyes are burning out of my head, I sneeze 12 constantly, my nose is congested and I spend the 13 next two days coughing, as if I were a smoker. 14 I am not a smoker anymore because I 15 quit three years ago, but I understand the 16 addiction, but I also was always aware of people 17 around me, I wouldn't smoke if I was in an area that 18 was bothering anyone. 19 People are still going to go out and 20 drink, even if they can't smoke, believe me. For 21 people like my sister, who is an opera singer, she 22 would go out more if bars weren't so smoky. It would 23 help people kick the habit if they wanted to because 24 how many times have you heard someone say they quit 25 until they had a drink and they needed a cigarette Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 312 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 then, then they had to smoke. 3 All I know is that working at a smoky 4 bar affects my voice and my health and I am 5 reluctant to work nights where I could make a lot of 6 money because I know how smoky it is. 7 I don't care if people want to smoke, 8 I just don't want them to do it near me, and it took 9 a lot of strength to quit smoking in the first 10 place, and I don't want to wind up with cancer or 11 anything else because someone else is blowing smoke 12 in my face all night long. 13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Let me just say 14 that I guess you were not in the Chamber when -- I 15 don't think she is your sister, but we did have a 16 Soprano person sing. Are you sure you don't want to 17 end by singing in these hearings? 18 MS. JOLICOEUR: No thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: It is not every 20 day you get on television for free. 21 MS. JOLICOEUR: But I would like to 22 add that I would be doing many more gigs in the City 23 if I didn't have to breathe smoke while waiting to 24 play. 25 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES: Okay. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 313 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Let me again thank all of you who 3 stayed behind from the beginning to the end. This is 4 not the end of the hearing, and this is the 5 beginning process where we should be making sure 6 that we bring forward the things that we are 7 recommending, because eventually that is how the 8 real bill will come before us. 9 I see no other business, or at least 10 other names, I now close these hearings. 11 (The following testimony was read 12 into the record.) 13 14 Written Testimony Of: 15 Andrew Hysell 16 Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids 17 18 Dear Honorable Chair and members of 19 the Committee: 20 Thank you for allowing me to join in 21 the chorus of voices here today to support 22 legislation to improve the 1995 Smoke Free Air Act. 23 My name is Andrew Hysell and I am 24 here representing the Campaign for Tobacco-Free 25 Kids. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 314 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids is 3 a national organization dedicated towards the 4 prevention of tobacco use among children and the 5 preservation of clean air for all. 6 Each year secondhand smoke causes 7 3,000 deaths from lung cancer of otherwise healthy 8 non-smokers, 62,000 deaths from heart disease, and 9 26,000 new asthma cases. 10 Clean indoor air laws prevent these 11 truly unfair and expensive illnesses and deaths. 12 New York City was distinguished 13 nationwide when the City Council passed Clean Indoor 14 Air legislation in 1995. It showed your commitment 15 to protect the health of New Yorkers when they 16 choose to eat out. Other cities and states have 17 since followed New York City's lead. 18 Now New York has an opportunity to 19 improve on its already impressive record. Passage of 20 amendments now before this Committee will strengthen 21 the key aspects of the 1995 Act. Among the changes 22 proposed would be a complete ban on smoking in 23 restaurants. 24 In states from California to Maine, 25 full restaurant smoking bans have been implemented Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 315 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 with amazing results. 3 Health benefits have been realized 4 without any attendant negative economic impact. In 5 fact, in some areas revenues have increased since 6 the passage of the smoking ban. 7 The so-called negative economic 8 impact argument is a red herring peer reviewed 9 studies of smoking bans have shown that full smoking 10 bans have a negligible impact on restaurant sales 11 and employment. 12 Intuitively, it makes sense that 13 people do not like to eat around cigarette smoke. 14 Many smokers themselves feel this way. 15 In addition, asthmatics and those 16 sensitive to smoke have a choice but to avoid 17 restaurants where smoking is currently allowed. A 18 smoking ban could actually increase patronage among 19 this group. 20 Once again, I urge the City Council 21 to pass, and the Mayor to sign, the proposed 22 amendments to the 1995 Smoke Free Air Act. Doing so 23 will allow everyone to breathe a little easier. 24 Thank you. 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 316 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Written Testimony Of: 3 Peter Adams, Esquire 4 International President 5 Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc. 6 Office of the President 7 International Headquarters, Washington, D.C. 8 9 Dear City Councilman: 10 Please permit me, on behalf of the 11 members of Phi Beta Sigma, within the City of New 12 York and nationwide, to encourage your support of 13 the pending bill before the City Council introduced 14 by Speaker Peter Vallone, to expand the 1995 Smoke 15 Free Air Act. 16 This bill will have the effects of 17 eliminating smoking in all restaurants, including 18 the bar areas and extending life-saving protections 19 to much of the private workforce. 20 Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc., is 21 an international social and service organization of 22 over 125,000 college and professional men founded in 23 1915 at Howard University in Washington, D.C. 24 The organization is comprised of 650 25 alumni and collegiate chapters. Thirteen of these Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 317 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 chapters are located within the City of New York. 3 Phi Beta Sigma has partnered with the 4 American Cancer Society in an ongoing commitment to 5 help eliminate cancer and save lives through a 6 collaborative initiative entitled Project SWWAC, 7 "Sigmas Waging War Against Cancer". Foremost 8 amongst our concerns is the alarming incidence of 9 lung cancer, of which an accepted cause is 10 secondhand smoke. 11 Therefore, Phi Beta Sigma is pleased 12 to resound the statements by the Coalition for a 13 smoke-free New York, led by the American Cancer 14 Society, the American Heart Association, Memorial 15 Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and dozens of other 16 health advocacy organizations and medical centers, 17 applauding this legislation which will go a long way 18 to protecting the health and lives of countless New 19 Yorkers. 20 New York, as the leading City of the 21 world, must be in the forefront of ensuring 22 protection to the health and freedom of all our 23 people, young and old. 24 It must support the right to relax in 25 any of its wonderful restaurants or bars and to work Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 318 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 in these establishments, or in any office setting, 3 without being subjected to the distasteful 4 experience and hazards of second-hand smoke. 5 Enactment of this new legislation 6 will represent a significant step forward. 7 There will now be a level playing 8 field for all New York City restaurants. No longer 9 will guests have to breathe smoke in small 10 restaurants or suffer from smoke drifting from the 11 bar, or tables near the bar, as is currently allowed 12 throughout the restaurant. 13 And just as important, servers and 14 bartenders will no longer have to breathe secondhand 15 smoke, a Class A carcinogen, in order to hold a job. 16 More than three-quarters of New 17 Yorkers do not smoke. They have chosen to breathe 18 smoke-free air. 19 And why not? One-third of all deaths 20 from cancer are a direct result of tobacco use, and 21 3,000 people die each year from lung cancer just 22 because they inhaled someone else's tobacco smoke. 23 Another important consideration in 24 supporting this bill is that when researchers and 25 prestigious Roswell Park Cancer Center did an Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 319 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 analysis of taxable sales receipts from the City's 3 restaurant and hotel industries, this study, 4 published in the journal of public health management 5 and practice, showed that real taxable sales from 6 eating and drinking places and hotels in New York 7 City, increased by 2.1 percent, and 36.9 percent 8 respectively, compared with levels two years before 9 the smoke-free law took effect. 10 In other words, there was no negative 11 economic impact on the New York City restaurant and 12 hotel business from the 1995 bill, despite dire 13 predictions from the industry. 14 The research shows that this 15 legislation is supported by two-thirds of New York 16 City voters. 17 It is reported that in a poll 18 commission by the American Cancer Society and other 19 members of the Coalition for a Smoke Free City, it 20 was found that: 21 - sixty-nine percent of New York City 22 voters supported eliminating smoking in all offices. 23 - sixty-seven percent of New York 24 City voters supported eliminating smoking in all 25 restaurants. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 320 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Lastly, it is worthy of note that by 3 allowing people to eat out and work in places where 4 smoking is prohibited or restricted, both 5 governmental and health organization studies have 6 concluded that such smoke-free environments make it 7 much easier for people who smoke but who want to 8 quit to do so. 9 This proposed bill offers a positive 10 benefit not only to the establishments and 11 workplaces affected, but to non-smokers and smokers 12 as well. 13 It represents a natural expansion of 14 the 1995 Smoke Free Air Act to further protect the 15 health and lives of our people. 16 As the bill is debated in hearings 17 beginning on March 1, I hope that you will consider 18 giving this support to this important legislation. 19 Thank you in advance for your 20 support. 21 Very truly yours, Peter M. Adams, 22 Esquire, International President, Phi Beta Sigma 23 Fraternity, Inc. 24 25 Written Testimony Of: Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 321 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 MaryAnn Fahey 3 4 To whom it may concern: 5 I am writing today to express my 6 support for City Council Speaker Peter Vallone and 7 the expansion of New York City's no smoking 8 regulations for restaurants, Intro. 865. 9 I have been a New York City resident 10 and non-smoking patron of restaurants for 17 years. 11 I dine out on the average of five times daily. 12 I have observed that the no smoking 13 law is not only not enforced by any agency but 14 completely disregarded by restaurant owners, their 15 management staff and patrons. 16 Whether the establishment seats 40 or 17 140, I am consistently confronted with the same 18 smoking issues while dining. 19 I know of only one restaurant in my 20 neighborhood that actually enforces the law as it is 21 today. 22 Restaurant owners have had years to 23 show some support and regard for the law as it 24 stands and simply have not done so. 25 If the New York State Restaurant Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 322 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Association had rallied their members to stand 3 behind the law and non-smoking patrons the way they 4 rally up against this new bill, the law would 5 probably not be up for review today. 6 It is my hope that by expanding the 7 law I may dine out without the usual anxiety. 8 Sincerely, M. Fahey. 9 10 Written Testimony Of: 11 Heather Selin 12 Advisor, Prevention and Control of Tobacco Use 13 Division of Health Promotion and Protection 14 Pan American Health Organization 15 World Health Organization 16 17 Dear Chairman Robles and 18 Distinguished Members of the Health Committee: 19 In the context of the Health 20 Committee's deliberations on Intro. 865, the 21 proposals to expand smoke-free areas in New York's 22 restaurants, offices and City-owned vehicles, I am 23 writing to express the position of the Pan American 24 Health Organization, World Health Organization, with 25 regard to the health impact of exposure to Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 323 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 secondhand tobacco smoke. 3 WHO's theme for World No Tobacco Day 4 (May 31) this year, "Let's Clear the Air," aims to 5 raise awareness of the risks of SHS and to mobilize 6 action to create smoke-free spaces. 7 Therefore, efforts by New York City 8 to improve protection for non-smokers are timely. 9 The hazards of SHS exposure are no 10 longer in dispute by credible health and scientific 11 organizations. 12 PAHO/WHO confers with the findings of 13 numerous authoritative and scientific (these bodies 14 include the United States Surgeon General, the U.S. 15 National Research Council, the U.S. Environmental 16 Protection Agency, the California Environmental 17 Protection Agency, and the National Health and 18 Medical Research Council of Australia) that exposure 19 to SHS puts non-smokers at elevated risk of a range 20 of serious health problems, including lung cancer 21 and heart disease. 22 In the United States alone it is 23 estimated that SHS is responsible for 3,000 lung 24 cancer deaths, and between 35,000 and 62,000 heart 25 disease deaths annually among non-smokers. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 324 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Of particular concern is the health 3 of employees who are routinely exposed to high 4 levels of SHS in the workplace, such as bar and 5 restaurant workers. 6 An international consultation held by 7 WHO in 1999 in response to the 1997 declaration on 8 children's environmental health of the environmental 9 leaders of the eight (G8) concluded the following: 10 ETS (environmental tobacco smoke, or 11 secondhand smoke) is a real and substantial threat 12 to child health, causing death and suffering 13 throughout the world. 14 ETS exposure causes a wide variety of 15 adverse health effects in children, including lower 16 respiratory tract infections, such as pneumonia and 17 bronchitis, coughing and wheezing, worsening of 18 asthma and middle-ear disease. Children's exposure 19 to environmental tobacco smoke may also contribute 20 to cardiovascular disease in adulthood and 21 neurobehavioral impairment. 22 The consultation also concluded that 23 maternal smoking during pregnancy is a major cause 24 of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, SIDS, and other 25 well-documented health effects, including reduced Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 325 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 birth weight, and decreased lung function. 3 In addition, the consultation noted 4 that ETS exposure among non-smoking pregnant women 5 can cause a decrease in birth weight and that infant 6 exposure to ETS may contribute to the risk of SIDS. 7 While improved ventilation and mere 8 separation of smokers and non-smokers may reduce 9 perceived irritation for some non-smokers. 10 Scientific evidence demonstrates that it provides 11 insufficient protection from the health hazards of 12 SHS. 13 Therefore, PHAO/WHO supports 14 solutions that will ultimately eliminate exposure of 15 non-smokers to SHS. 16 I hope that this information is 17 useful to your deliberations. 18 PAHO wishes the Health Committee and 19 the City Council success in ongoing efforts to 20 expand smoke-free spaces within New York City. 21 Yours sincerely, Heather Selin, 22 Advisor, Prevention and Control of Tobacco Use 23 Division of Health Promotion and Protection. 24 25 Written Testimony Of: Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 326 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Linda Stewart 3 Public Comment 4 5 Gentlemen, this is a witch hunt. And 6 like all good hunters (from Cotton Mather to Carrie 7 Nation, from Joseph Goebbels to Joe McCarthy - and 8 in between, a lot of various Grand Viziers of the 9 Klan) today's hunters are convinced that somehow 10 Providence has sent them a message. Instructed them 11 exactly in how to save the world, even save it from 12 itself, which invariably gets tricky - and ends in 13 breaking eggs - or heads, or wills, or inconvenient 14 constitutions - to make their providential omelets. 15 These people are Absolutists. 16 Hundred-percenters. The Final Solvers who come up 17 with the Final Solutions. Not content with exclusive 18 rights to 9.5 percent of the restaurants, they now 19 want to grab them all, all 100 percent, on 20 principle. Just because. They may never go to that 21 diner in Staten Island, but they can't sleep tight 22 until they are certain that no smoker can go there 23 either, and that is the 30 percent of waiters and 24 waitresses who smoke can't sit and relax on their 25 breaks, but have to go stand in the snow, and above Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 327 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 all, they need to make certain that nobody has a 3 choice. 4 They have already asked the City, and 5 will certainly ask again, to ban smokers from bars 6 and nightclubs, and defining the word "extreme" to 7 chase them 50 feet from the entrance to every 8 building, which in this City is like telling all 9 smokers to go play in traffic. 10 Next thing, of course, they will try 11 to ban us from our own apartments. You think that 12 will ever happen? They have already done it in 13 California. 14 This has all gone far beyond a 15 pretense of rational science. This is now about 16 intolerance. This is now about power. This is now 17 about a crusade of purification and such crusades 18 have ended badly for every culture that has ever 19 tried them, and that includes our own. 20 Jim Crow was rationalized on the 21 basis of public health. It was widely accepted - and 22 most certainly by the governments - that if a black 23 person and a white person drank from the same 24 fountain, rested in the same restrooms or ate from 25 the same, say, Woolworth counter plate, even though Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 328 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 the plate had been washed in between, that poor 3 whitey would sicken and die. 4 Hitler's propaganda films are full of 5 the same for Jews A "dirty" people who "cause" 6 infectious disease. And that lineup of Nazi 7 scientists had the "studies" that said it's so. And 8 who can argue with science? 9 In fact, who can argue with zealots? 10 Providence, after all, has been nibbling at their 11 ears and who are their opponents to sass off to 12 Providence? Opposing Providence, they must be the 13 Devil. Or else in the Devil's pay. Or under the 14 Devil's spell (addled in mind and soul.) Which, of 15 course, automatically contaminates their evidence no 16 matter how empirical, no matter what common sense. 17 And obviously, appeals to either civil or human 18 rights are automatically made irrelevant. The Devil 19 isn't human: Those he touches are sub-human. They're 20 "dirty" and "smelly"; they're dangerous and dumb, 21 they're low-lifes and addicts - inconsiderate, 22 irresponsible and parasitic as a class. 23 Dehumanize your target - as the 24 craftiest bigots know - and voila! he has no rights. 25 And no right to claim that he does. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 329 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Purifying the world can be a truly 3 exhausting task. All those witches that have to be 4 burned. All those crosses that have to be burned. 5 Carrie Nation swinging her axe. Joe McCarthy, grimly 6 eating his way through the Bill of Rights. And all 7 of it, always, in the Absolute belief that 8 everything - everything - will suddenly be all right 9 as soon as we get rid of the - fill in the blank: 10 Blacks; Reds; booze; Jews. 11 So, this time it is smokers. Instead 12 of fascism, it's Ashism. But it is all the same 13 hustle; using all of the same techniques. Why 14 smokers" I dunno. Why Blacks? Why Jews? Why gays? 15 Who knows? Perhaps because it is fun to kick other 16 people around. 17 Let's briefly speak about the kicked. 18 Who are, despite rumors, actual human beings. 19 They're the woman in her early 80s who hangs out at 20 my local coffee shop. (One of the only two that I'm 21 aware of where you can smoke, in this city with 22 several thousand.) She's always there in the 23 afternoon, very slowly eating her lunch, smoking her 24 Benson & Hedges and looking up from the Post, hoping 25 against hope to engage a stranger in conversation. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 330 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 When her husband died, her son, who's 3 much too busy to even see her, insisted she move to 4 the city. To a place where she has no friends so 5 every day she goes to the coffee shop. Just to get 6 out of the house. The afternoon that she spoke to me 7 she just read in the Post about the ban that you now 8 propose. And the lady started to cry. And that's a 9 totally true story. 10 So what're you gonna tell her, guys? 11 Tough luck lady - quit smoking or stay in the house? 12 Or perhaps you'll tell her the bright side. She can 13 still hang out in a bar. (At least for another 14 year.) Or perhaps she can drink her coffee and smoke 15 her cigarettes in the rain. 16 Historically, I can think of only one 17 other group of people who was even deprived of a 18 ghetto, and was totally deprived of the right to 19 freely assemble. That one ended in the Stonewall 20 riots. 21 Where will this one end? 22 23 Toxic Toxicology: 24 Placing Scientific Credibility At Risk 25 Review Procedures and listing criteria used in the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 331 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 preparation of the DHHS Report on Carcinogens (RoC) 3 4 September 15, 1999 5 Washington, D.C. 6 7 Littlewood & Fennell 8 Independent Public & Health Policy Research 9 Austin, TX 10 11 Michael R. Fox, Ph.D 12 Chemist 13 Richland, WA 14 15 Calculating the Non-Existent Risks of 16 ETS. 17 We have taken the substances for 18 which measurements have actually been obtained - 19 very few, of course, because it's difficult to even 20 find these chemicals in diffuse and diluted ETS. 21 We posit a sealed unventilated 22 enclosure that is 20 feet square with a 9-foot 23 ceiling clearance. 24 Taking the figures for ETS yields per 25 cigarette directly from the EPA, we calculated the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 332 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 number of cigarettes that would be required to reach 3 the lowest published "danger" threshold for each of 4 these substances. The results are actually quite 5 amusing. In fact, it is difficult to imagine a 6 situation where these threshold limits could be 7 realized. 8 Our chart illustrates each of these 9 substances, but let me report some notable examples. 10 For Benzo[a]pyrene, 222,000 11 cigarettes would be required to reach the lowest 12 published "danger" threshold. 13 For Acetone, 118,000 cigarettes would 14 be required. 15 Toluene would require 50,000 packs of 16 simultaneously smoldering cigarettes. 17 At the lower end of the scale - in 18 the case of Acetaldehyde or Hydrazine more than 19 14,000 smokers would need to light up simultaneously 20 in our little room to reach the threshold at which 21 they might begin to pose a danger. 22 For Hydroquinone, "only" 1250 23 cigarettes are required. Perhaps we could pots a 24 notice limiting this 20-foot square room to 300 25 rather tightly-packed people smoking no more than 62 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 333 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 packs per hour? 3 Of course the moment we introduce 4 real world factors to the room - a door, an open 5 window or two, or a healthy level of mechanical air 6 exchange (remember, the room we've been talking 7 about is sealed) achieving these levels becomes even 8 more implausible. 9 It becomes increasingly clear to us 10 that ETS is a political rather than scientific 11 scapegoat. 12 13 Written Testimony of: 14 Ellen Hart Sturm 15 Ellen's Stardust Diner 16 17 Thank you for allowing me to voice my 18 opinion on a subject I feel passionately about: The 19 freedom of all of us to express and exercise our 20 personal choice, insofar as it does not endanger or 21 infringe on the rights of others. 22 Smoking is a personal decision, and 23 although I am personally against smoking for a 24 variety of reasons, such as lost productivity, high 25 medical costs and pain it exacts on the individual Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 334 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 and their families, it is a fundamental right for 3 all citizens to make these personal decisions as 4 long as it does not force others to be subjected to 5 dangerous conditions against their will. 6 Unfortunately, smoking in public 7 places robs all of us of our civil liberties and 8 makes us unwitting partners in a dangerous addiction 9 through no fault of ours, it has long been fact that 10 secondhand smoke can be hazardous to one's health 11 and our City and country has made great strides in 12 protecting the rights of all her citizens not to be 13 subjected to smoking against one's free will. 14 Not only have tougher laws made for a 15 healthier environment for all of us, but by also 16 raising the public consciousness, these guidelines 17 have steadily reduced the smoking population which 18 can only be viewed as a positive for all of us, 19 current smokers and non-smokers alike. 20 However, as a concerned citizen and 21 business owner, I ask the Council to do more. 22 I have seen the success that a 23 non-smoking environment has done for my restaurants. 24 Ellen Stardust Diner and Iridium Jazz Club, the 25 advantages if a smoke-free environment have many. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 335 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The most interesting case can be 3 found at the Iridium Jazz Club, New York's only 4 completely smoke-free jazz club, no smoking in a 5 jazz club. Complete heresy, they said. 6 However, since instituting this 7 policy over four years ago, we have seen a steady 8 rise in revenue and satisfied customers who enjoy an 9 improved environment. 10 Many customers have commented that 11 now they can finally start going out to see live 12 music again. You see, smokers can always smoke 13 before or after a meal or a show, but non-smokers 14 should not have to grin and bear it. 15 I have seen the same results at 16 another one of my restaurants, Ellen's Stardust 17 Diner, where workers are no longer taking 18 unscheduled breaks and returning smelling like an 19 ashtray. They will also hopefully wean themselves of 20 this dangerous habit. 21 When we all started imposing stricter 22 laws, we thought we would see decreased revenue. 23 That is not the case. Smokers can adjust their 24 smoking schedule while non-smokers no longer need to 25 avoid smoky restaurants and other business. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 336 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Health issues are minimized, revenue 3 increases and our civil liberties remain intact. 4 Not only will a completely smoke-free 5 environment improve our City's businesses, it will 6 also improve our lives, and limiting where and when 7 people can smoke, we also do our part to discourage 8 others from smoking or trying that first cigarette. 9 For while I am personally worried 10 about the health effects of non-smokers from 11 secondhand smoke, I also would like to help my 12 fellow New Yorkers that currently smoke cigarettes. 13 We have all seen the damage long-term 14 smoking has caused, therefore, as both a 15 businesswoman and a human being, I implore the 16 Council to continue on this path and call for a 17 completely smoke free environment for all. 18 19 Written Testimony Of: 20 Jackie Wheeler 21 Re: Support Anti-Smoking Legislation 22 23 Dear City Council Members: 24 I respectfully urge you today to pass 25 legislation that will ban smoking in all workplaces, Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 337 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 especially all restaurants and bars. 3 I work in a lounge with food in Times 4 Square where smoking is permitted. 5 Every time I come home from work I am 6 choking from excessive secondhand smoke and my 7 clothes and hair are permeated with the putrid smell 8 of cigarettes. 9 This is particularly disturbing for 10 me as I am pregnant, therefore, I am not only 11 concerned about my own health and that of my 12 co-workers, but am now frightened by the prospect of 13 what this smoke may be doing to my unborn child. 14 Exposure to secondhand smoke during 15 pregnancy has been known to cause serious risks to 16 survival and health and fetus of the newborn baby. 17 I have been suffering from a lot of 18 respiratory problems from the smoke as well. 19 Although, I have seniority due to the 20 many years I have worked at the restaurant, I 21 requested working shifts where smoke is less 22 prevalent, that is weeknights instead of weekends. 23 The smoke is only slightly less suffocating. But 24 because of the new schedule, I am also making 25 significantly less money. This is not fair. I feel Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 338 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 this is a form of discrimination. Their choice to 3 smoke is infringing on my right to work in a healthy 4 environment. 5 Restaurants and bars which are both 6 worksites and enclosed public places must be better 7 regulated in order to protect non-smoking employees 8 and customers from secondhand smoke. We must be 9 given the same public health protection as all the 10 other employees. 11 On behalf of myself, my family, my 12 co-workers, and especially the child I am carrying, 13 please pass this legislation. Let my baby be born 14 into a world where clean air is a basic right and 15 not a battle for which we will still need to be 16 fighting. 17 Thank you. 18 Jackie Wheeler. 19 20 Written Testimony Of: 21 Kelli Maguire 22 Re: Please ban smoking in all workplaces. 23 24 I urge you to pass legislation to ban 25 smoking in all restaurants and in all workplaces. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 339 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 I am an actress and a singer and have 3 often had to make a living by being a waitress. 4 Sometimes the only work that I could find was in 5 restaurants or clubs that permit smoking. 6 Every night that I work in these 7 places I come home coughing like mad and wreaking of 8 cigarette smoke. 9 I deserve a safe and healthy 10 smoke-free work environment just like everybody 11 else. 12 Nobody should have to breathe in 13 toxic smoke just to hold a job. The only right we 14 should be advocating for today is the one that all 15 citizens have, the legitimate right to breathe clean 16 air. 17 I would like to thank the Council and 18 hope you will pass this legislation. 19 Thank you. 20 Kelli Maguire. 21 22 Written Testimony Of: 23 Joseph Calfano, Jr. 24 The National Center on Addiction 25 and Substance Abuse Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 340 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 at Columbia University 3 4 Dear Councilman Robles: 5 I write in support of Intro. No. 865, 6 an amendment to the Smoke Free Act of 1995 sponsored 7 by the City Council Speaker Peter Vallone. 8 I have the privilege of serving as 9 Chairman of the Mayor's Committee on Smoking and 10 Health in 1986. 11 During Mayor Koch's Administration 12 our Committee helped draft the first smoke-free 13 legislation that the City Council enacted that year. 14 Despite vehement protests from the 15 tobacco industry, the legislation passed 16 unanimously, and the restaurant business in New York 17 City has continued to flourish. 18 Speaker Vallone was the strongest 19 supporter of the legislation at the time and I 20 admire him for continuing to improve the health of 21 New Yorkers. 22 The legislation proposed by Speaker 23 Vallone to strengthen the 1995 Smoke-Free Act will 24 not only provide a healthier environment for the New 25 York City residents and visitors, but also for Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 341 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 servers and bartenders who currently spend several 3 hours a day forced to inhale harmful carcinogens. 4 Not since the early part of the last 5 century when coal miners were condemned to black 6 lung disease as a condition of working in mines have 7 we subjected any population to the high risk of 8 fatal and debilitating lung disease to which now 9 condemns servers and bartenders in smoke-filled 10 bars. 11 The tobacco industry and the nicotine 12 pushers have no interest in the financial condition 13 of restaurants. They oppose them because such 14 restrictions help reduce the social acceptability of 15 cigarettes and make it easier for nicotine addicts 16 to quit smoking. 17 In enclosed places it is possible to 18 eat alone and drink alone, it is not possible to 19 smoke alone. 20 Environmental tobacco smoke is the 21 third leading cause of preventable death in the 22 United States resulting in an estimated 53,000 23 premature deaths each year. 24 Only active smoking, 420,000 deaths 25 per year, and alcohol 100,000 deaths per year result Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 342 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 in more deaths. 3 The illness caused and aggravated by 4 environmental tobacco smoke has been extensively 5 reported in scientific literature, and a series of 6 reports issued by the Surgeon General of the United 7 States National Research Council, Environmental 8 Protection Agency, and most recently, by the 9 California Environmental Protection Agency, the 10 tobacco industry, indifferent to the health of those 11 compelled to breathe the carcinogenic smoke of 12 others argued, as it did in 1986 and 1995, that New 13 York City restaurants and bars will lose money if 14 the restaurants have flourished. 15 Smoking restrictions are associated 16 with the gains in restaurant revenues and 17 employment. Massachusetts has enacted smoking in 18 restaurant bans that protect almost three-quarters 19 of their population and the restaurant business 20 there has flourished. 21 Beverely Hills, which has the 22 strictest restrictions in California, the restaurant 23 business has continued to prosper. 24 A state ban on smoking in all bars 25 and restaurants has improved the health of Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 343 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 hospitality workers in California. Before the ban 3 had taken effect on January 1, 1998, researchers at 4 the University of California, at San Francisco, 5 interviewed 53 bartenders about respiratory 6 symptoms, such as difficulty breathing, wheezing, 7 coughing or production of phlegm. 8 The researchers found that 74 percent 9 of the bartenders interviewed suffered from 10 respiratory problems and 77 percent complained of 11 irritation of the eyes, nose or throat. 12 Just weeks after the ban had taken 13 effect researchers conducted follow-up exams with 14 dramatic results, almost 60 percent of those 15 bartenders with respiratory problems no longer had 16 them and 75 percent of those with irritated eyes, 17 nose or throats were now free of those symptoms. 18 I urge the City Council to enact the 19 strengthening of the Smoke Free Air Act of 1995, and 20 I commend Speaker Vallone for his continued courage 21 and commitment to this issue. 22 23 Written Testimony Of: 24 Annie Beigel 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 344 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 City Council Members, 3 I would like to express my view on 4 the Clean indoor Air ordinance, 865, that you are 5 considering. 6 I have worked in cessation for about 7 ten years as a volunteer for the American Cancer 8 Society. During my years of working with people who 9 want to quit, I discovered some interesting things. 10 First, some people become more 11 addicted than others. Some find it easy to quit. The 12 ones who find it difficult were the ones who came to 13 the cessation program that I ran. 14 After several years of working with 15 hardened smokers, my heart began to feel compassion 16 for them. 17 All of them wanted to quit, but many 18 could not do it. 19 I have since left the cessation 20 arena, but to this day I feel extreme compassion for 21 people who smoke. When I see them huddled in the 22 doorways on a cold rainy day getting their cigarette 23 fix, I know their struggle. 24 Most of these people want to quit but 25 they can't, and so they suffer terribly either from Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 345 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 humiliation or from atrocities that smoking does to 3 the human body. 4 The CDC most recently did a research 5 report citing that Clean Indoor Air Legislation is 6 perhaps the strongest measure we can take to bring 7 down the rates of tobacco use and consumption. There 8 are no magic bullets to get people off of 9 cigarettes, but a clean indoor air policy has been 10 proven to reduce smoking and quit rates. 11 Do you know that when a worksite goes 12 smoke-free, one out of every five smokers will quit 13 smoking because of the policy? I am here to ask you 14 to pass this policy of Clean Indoor Air on behalf of 15 the people who are so tragically hooked on 16 cigarettes. 17 Even a percentage of the restaurants' 18 workers will quit due to this policy. The policy 19 that you are considering is going to save lives and 20 hurts the profits of the tobacco industry. 21 One last thing, as a resident and a 22 patron of many residents in New York City, I avoid 23 all restaurants that allow this smoke from their bar 24 area to come into the dining room. When this happens 25 most of my friends will complain of the irritating Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 346 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 smoke, but I hate the way my clothes smell. For me 3 this is a quality of life issue in New York City. 4 I urge you to pass this policy on 5 behalf of all of us who hate to wreak when we come 6 home from a smoke-filled restaurant. 7 8 Written Testimony Of: 9 Melissa Beckman 10 11 I am a severe Triad Asthmatic. I 12 never smoked a cigarette in my life or had childhood 13 Asthma and allergies. Like a drunk driver, the 14 actions of one, a single smoker, can have 15 devastating affects on others. 16 I like to work, but I cannot work or 17 survive in a smoke-filled environment. I had to quit 18 school because of smoking in classrooms. I have 19 experienced verbal and physical abuse in school and 20 workplaces from smokers. 21 Not only have I refused jobs in 22 smoke-filled offices, but also places where there is 23 lingering smoke particulates. 24 Due to the secondhand smoke I have 25 not had a pain-free day in 12 years. ETS caused the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 347 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 onset of severe asthma requiring five different 3 drugs daily. Three-quarters of the year I am also on 4 antibiotics and steroids for the smoke-induced sinus 5 and lung infections. If it weren't for the 6 secondhand smoke, I would not be on these drugs. 7 Due to the drugs I take to survive 8 there are side effects. Related to all of this I 9 became a transplant candidate two and a half years 10 ago. It is not fun to be told you have to wait for 11 someone to die so you can live. Organ failure is 12 excruciatingly painful. 13 It is amazing how many people smoke 14 in various hospitals. After I left the ICU, I could 15 only walk the hospital halls between 2:00 a.m. and 16 6:30 in the morning, due to the smoke. 17 ETS has caused sinus polyposal 18 disease - scarring the sinus cavities behind the 19 eyes, forehead and up to the base of the brain, 20 requiring two operations and when I can afford it, a 21 third. 22 I am not able to afford the 23 suctioning that I need. I pay my medical bills, not 24 the state, not the government. I pay in more ways 25 than one. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 348 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 I work for my medical bills. Due to 3 the secondhand smoke I have asthma attacks daily, 4 nose bleeds weekly. I have experienced other 5 physical problems related to ETS, but there is not 6 enough time to go into them. Once you become smoke 7 sensitive, you develop multiple chemical 8 sensitivities, like perfume, latex, clothing dyes. 9 Since the 1988 American Disabilities 10 Act and the first laws were passed to limit smoking 11 in schools and the workplace, I have learned some 12 sad truths. They are hollow laws. 13 This City does not enforce existing 14 laws. Staffers either hang up on you or laugh if you 15 ask for help. 16 Since I could not bring an oxygen 17 tank to the classroom rooms due to the smokers, I 18 had to quit school. 19 Calls from City agencies get passed 20 from office to office with no one taking 21 information. Letters didn't help. 22 I am now so sensitive, I react to the 23 clinging smoke particulates on people's clothing and 24 enclosed environments. Even if no one is smoking. 25 I always carry and use a face mask. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 349 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 The smoke-induced infections and pain is exhausting. 3 To be able to work five days, I need to spend at 4 least one day in bed. I have to ration my days out 5 in the world with people. Secondhand smoke affects 6 all level of interaction. 7 I wonder if our personal experiences 8 really matter. It seems that the financial impact of 9 secondhand smoke is more important, not the quality 10 of life. 11 I can tell you that medical bills are 12 high. The productivity in the workplace decreases 13 due to ETS, smoke suppresses the immune system so 14 there is a higher frequency of illness. 15 If you are an asthmatic, there is a 16 potential fatal reaction. 17 ETS also decreases energy levels and 18 clarity of thought. I know that one day I will have 19 to totally isolate myself from others and go on 20 disability. The damage from secondhand smoke has 21 been done and it is permanent. 22 Once smoke sensitive, you are always 23 sensitive. Each exposure is worse. There is no going 24 back. 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 350 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Written Testimony Of: 3 Richard Alpert 4 Professo, LLC 5 6 Dear Chairman Robles and 7 Distinguished Members of the Health Committee: 8 I truly regret that I cannot be 9 before you in person today, but the exigencies of a 10 start-up company cannot be ignored. I thank you for 11 permitting me to testify in absentia, and am 12 grateful for the time and attention you will give my 13 words. 14 My name is Richard Alpert. I work 15 with a two-year-old software company with 16 headquarters on the second floor of One Wall Street 17 Court. Wall Street Court is near the intersection of 18 Pearl and Hanover Streets in the heart of the 19 financial district. 20 As a company, we are vibrant and 21 thriving. So much so, that in October, we expanded 22 into additional offices occupying one-third of the 23 ninth floor of the same building. 24 We all welcome the breathing room 25 that the additional new spaces give us. We quickly Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 351 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 found, though, that breathing room was not enough. 3 We also needed to breathe. 4 Each floor of the One Wall Street 5 Court shares a single ventilation system. Air is 6 withdrawn from offices cooled or warmed and 7 recirculated throughout the floor. Although, none of 8 the 11 people working on our ninth floor space ever 9 smoked inside the building, we all have been 10 affected by the actions of other people working for 11 another company on the same floor. Ultimately we 12 have retreated back down to the second floor. 13 Fortunately, for us, our problem no longer exists. 14 Others will soon occupy that same space, though, and 15 they will not be so fortunate. 16 But being a young company, we start 17 work early and continue working late. Mornings 18 office air was relatively clean. There was only a 19 slight smell in the common areas, and almost no 20 smell in our space. We were fortunate to have 21 windows that opened. 22 The window in my office was always 23 open slightly and opened wider over night. At about 24 10:35 a.m. each workday, byproducts of burning 25 tobacco would begin to infiltrate our space. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 352 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Surprisingly, for me the first 3 symptoms were not olfactory. Instead, a 4 light-burning sensation in my eyes signaled that our 5 neighbor to the east had begun his smoking for the 6 day. 7 That is usually about when I would 8 don my outerwear, close my office door and open my 9 window wide. Whenever I used the telephone, I would 10 first have to pop up and close the window so as not 11 to have my conversation interrupted by noise from 12 the street below. 13 Burning eyes were followed by a mild 14 headache that crept in about the same time I first 15 would begin to notice the smell. Four-hundred 16 milligrams if ibuprofen would ease but does not 17 eliminate the symptoms. 18 Fortunately, I am able to do much of 19 my work using a laptop computer. Working with the 20 software company, many of our employees were not so 21 well off. Seven of the 11 people working on the 22 ninth floor were developers. Developers spend most 23 of their workdays sitting in front of their 24 computers, designing, creating and building the 25 software that we sell. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 353 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 They had no alternative but to stay 3 on the ninth floor. Frequently I would open my 4 office window wide, set my phone to forward my calls 5 downstairs, grab my laptop, close my office door and 6 escape to the clean air in our second floor offices. 7 I informed the building management 8 that the situation had grown intolerable. I taped 9 over the ventilation grill in my office. The tenants 10 across the hall were informed of the problem, but 11 there was no change in the quality of our air. 12 Building management bought an electrostatic air 13 cleaner for our space. Such devices can only trap 14 particulates and are unable to remove those 15 substances, mostly gases, that cause us such 16 unpleasantness. 17 Shortly before the winter holidays I 18 drafted a letter describing the situation to Mr. 19 Carl Icahn, the owner of the business across the 20 hall, and asked for his help. 21 Amazingly, the situation immediately 22 improved. We were pleased, indeed. Even our 23 employees who do smoke noticed a difference. We all 24 seemed to be in higher spirits. True, much of that 25 probably could have been due to the holiday season. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 354 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 I should inject that being a start-up 3 company we had only Christmas Day and New Year's Day 4 off. 5 After the holidays, though we learned 6 that what we thought was a problem solved was only a 7 problem postponed. Our smoker had taken an extended 8 winter holiday, with the new year the foul air 9 returned. 10 When the situation again became 11 unbearable, I contacted the Department of Health, an 12 inspector was sent, my window had been opened wide 13 the day of the inspection so I was not surprised to 14 read later in the inspector's report that he could 15 not detect the smell of smoke in my office. I 16 learned that the New York City Smoke Free Air Act, 17 while it limits smoking in shared office space, 18 defines shared on the basis of geographic 19 connectivity on a human scale. Can a person 20 physically move into a smoker's space without 21 opening a door? Human physiology knows nothing of 22 doors, nothing of shared ventilation systems. 23 Because no one in our physical space was smoking, 24 the New York City Smoke Free Air Act could do 25 nothing for us. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 355 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Questions most rhetorical remain 3 unanswered. Why couldn't the smokers have gone 4 outside to satisfy their habit? Why couldn't they 5 have opened their window since their behavior was at 6 the root of our problem. How did the smokers earn 7 the right to jeopardize our health, our 8 productivity, our happiness. 9 Unfortunately, we as a company 10 concluded that the extra space on the ninth floor 11 was an unnecessary luxury. Having withdrawn back to 12 our spaces on the second floor, our problem is 13 solved, at least for now. Had we not moved back 14 downstairs, I don't know how the situation would 15 have resolved, or even if it would have resolved. I 16 do know that conditions were intolerable and could 17 not have continued. 18 I strongly urge you, Chairman Robles, 19 and distinguished members of the Health Committee, 20 to work to expand the New York City Smoke Free Air 21 Act definition of shared space to include spaces 22 served by a common ventilation system. 23 Thank you. 24 Richard Alpert. 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 356 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Written Testimony Of: 3 Daniel Sherr 4 5 As you know, the boroughs of Queens, 6 Brooklyn, the Bronx and Manhattan are among the top 7 ten regions in the country for particulate matter 8 pollution, and Manhattan leads the way in this 9 dubious distinction. 10 While not much progress has been on 11 the various sources of this outdoor pollution, you 12 now have before you the possibility to further 13 advance in limiting a major source of indoor 14 pollution, tobacco smoke. 15 I am very sensitive to cigarette 16 smoke, and there is an overwhelming body of 17 scientific evidence that attests to the harmful 18 effects of environmental tobacco smoke, ETS. 19 As you know, the EPA lists secondhand 20 tobacco smoke as one of eight Group A carcinogens, 21 along with asbestos, benzene, arsenic and radon. 22 It is illegal to expose workers to 23 any group A carcinogen except tobacco smoke. Yet, 24 tobacco smoke kills more people than the other Group 25 A carcinogens combined. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 357 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 A smoker's decision to continue 3 smoking is, of course, his own. There is no reason, 4 however, why a non-smoker should be forced to be a 5 passive smoker, as is unfortunately the case today 6 in the restaurants and some workplaces throughout 7 the City. 8 Some of the eloquent testimony 9 offered, when today's current non-smoking 10 legislation was being enacted emphasized how smoke 11 respects no boundaries. The owner of a discoteque 12 explained in graphic detail how the smoke would waft 13 in from the smoking section into the non-smoking 14 section. 15 I find the same thing happens in 16 restaurants today where the smoke from the bar area 17 moves into other areas of the restaurant and often 18 affects the patrons who are waiting to be seated. 19 I go out a lot and as much as 20 possible I try to go to the restaurants where there 21 is no smoking in any part of the restaurant. 22 I have given my patronage to 23 non-smoking restaurants and I have withdrawn it from 24 those restaurants where one has to wait to be seated 25 by a bar where smoking is permitted. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 358 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 Statistics from other areas in the 3 country that have gone smoke-free, including 4 California, indicate that restaurant attendance have 5 actually gone up and that people clearly prefer a 6 smoke-free environment. 7 My own experience as an interpreter 8 for Spaniards, who have higher rate of smoking than 9 do Americans, indicates that for some the 10 inconvenience of smoking in public in states leads 11 them to drop it all together while they are in the 12 United States. Others, who are perhaps more hooked, 13 get up and go aside, if they need to smoke. 14 But I have not met any who have 15 stopped coming to New York because of the 16 anti-smoking policy. Indeed, the record numbers of 17 tourists coming to New York have coincided with New 18 York's more rigid policy on smoking in restaurants. 19 I work freelance and I turned down an 20 assignment to be here. I would like you to interpret 21 my presence here as what it is meant to be, a 22 statement of the great importance I attach to this 23 legislation. 24 I was going to end my remarks here, 25 but I wanted to share with the Committee two Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 359 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 experiences I had just this week. One took place at 3 a cafe called the Esperanto Cafe' on Bleecker 4 Street. 5 I went in with some friends who 6 wanted to order some coffee. To my surprise, I noted 7 that people were smoking everywhere, even in the 8 furthest corner. 9 I asked the person who I assumed to 10 be the manager who worked at the cash register what 11 the Cafe's smoking policy was. I asked him if they 12 had a certain area within a certain distance from 13 the bar where it was permitted? No, he said, it was 14 much simpler. Smoking was permitted anywhere. Was 15 that the City's policy? No, he answered, it is ours. 16 The second experience occurred at a 17 restaurant in the Hudson Hotel on West 58. In a 18 large restaurant with no bar, inside the hotel, my 19 brother-in-law visiting from Chicago noted with 20 displeasure that the people three seats down were 21 smoking. 22 He asked the hostess what the 23 restaurant's smoking policy was. He said it was to 24 allow smoking anywhere unless someone complained. 25 When my brother-in-law told her she Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 360 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 could interpret his query as a complaint, we were 3 moved a few tables down farther away from the 4 smokers who continued smoking unimpeded. 5 These random encounters led me to 6 believe that there is perhaps a wide degree of 7 non-compliance with the current law. 8 Would stricter regulations lead to 9 greater compliance? Perhaps. 10 The current regulations prohibit 11 smoking in most restaurants, but there are various 12 attenuating circumstances. 13 The seating capacity of the 14 restaurant, the area around the bar. The customer 15 may not know the regulations and may be reluctant to 16 protest. 17 On the other hand, if the regulations 18 were clearer cut, smoking is prohibited in all New 19 York restaurants and bars, except in smoking areas 20 with completely separate ventilation systems, the 21 rules of the game would be much clearer. 22 Everyone would know what to expect. 23 Patrons could demand it, and restaurateurs could be 24 expected to provide it. There would be much less 25 room for debate on the permissible and the Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 361 1 COMMITTEE ON HEALTH 2 non-permissible, much less cutting of corners. 3 For all of these reasons, I urge the 4 Committee and the Council to lend its support to 5 Intro. 865. 6 (Hearing concluded at 3:40 p.m.) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 362 1 2 CERTIFICATION 3 4 5 STATE OF NEW YORK ) 6 COUNTY OF NEW YORK ) 7 8 9 I, CINDY MILLELOT, a Certified 10 Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public in and for the 11 State of New York, do hereby certify that the 12 foregoing is a true and accurate transcript of the 13 within proceeding. 14 I further certify that I am not 15 related to any of the parties to this action by 16 blood or marriage, and that I am in no way 17 interested in the outcome of this matter. 18 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto 19 set my hand this 1st day of March 2001. 20 21 22 23 24 --------------------- 25 CINDY MILLELOT, CSR. Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410 363 1 2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I, CINDY MILLELOT, a Certified Shorthand 10 Reporter and a Notary Public in and for the State of 11 New York, do hereby certify the aforesaid to be a 12 true and accurate copy of the transcription of the 13 audio tapes of this hearing. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ----------------------- CINDY MILLELOT, CSR. 25 Legal-Ease Court Reporting Services, Inc. (800) 756-3410